Talk:Infinite Dvorak deck

This deck is perpetually under construction. If you want to join in, just add some cards to the card list.

Neat idea

This is a neat idea! As I remember cards from my gaming group's old 1000 Blank White Cards game, I'll add the ones that make sense (and probably some that don't) here. Edit: And in case you're wondering, the original cards designed for use with Full Deck were: Diamonds Are Forever, Gone Clubbing, "Cover Your Heart, Indy!", and Have Your Pet Spade or Neutered. Jtwe 21:03, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Well where are those other cards?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gill smoke (talk • contribs) 31st December 2007.

Tokens = Things

Wouldn't it be easier to define Tokens as created-on-the-spot Things? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zaratustra (talk • contribs).

That plays heck with game balance. For example, "Hoard"...-Bucky 06:58, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I get the feeling this deck is never going to be particularly "balanced".

Tokens being Things sounds like a good idea from the infinite deck perspective - if a game features one token generator card, but no cards that do anything with tokens, then there's less card interaction than there could be. Treating all "destroy a token to achieve X" cards as "destroy a token or Thing" won't hurt anyway - if the effect is tailored for an abundance of tokens, then using a non-token Thing is just an expensive alternative, which is better than the card being unusable. --Kevan 10:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)]

My problem with that is if a card says "destroy a thing or things to achive X", tokens shouldn't count, as the point was the sacrifice of things. Should we just change all cards like this, or change the rule? --fanofphilosophy

I just realized that if a token is destroyed it would be placed in the discard pile. I assume that this isn't what was meant to happen. I'll change the rule to reflect this. --Ryan 1729 02:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Cards by Bucky

(Older content moved to Talk:Infinite Dvorak deck/Archived Talk)

A Wizard Did It

Does the implied "you" at the beginning of an imperative sentence ( (you) Draw a card at the end of your turn) or inside the word Action: (Instead of playing an action, you may...) count for this card?--ChippyYYZ 19:15, 24 July 2008 (BST)

Decoy

"Decoy does not have turns or a hand and may not make any decisions. You may use Decoy's Things as if you controlled them. If Decoy would win the game, you win instead. If Decoy would be eliminated, destroy it instead". How does Decoy get these Things you may use? Goldenboots 02:20, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

For example, a card reading "Give N Tokens to an Opponent"-Bucky 04:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

sudo rm -r /*

Shouldn't that be "Remove all cards from the game." ? --Gill smoke 14:32, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Only if you don't mind leaving the game in an unplayable state. -Bucky 21:44, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't mind, the game becomes a draw. The Unix command would be syntactically correct, sudo mv -r /* /dev/null would be equivalent and would make more sense as a delete all cards.

Win Conditions

Not that I mind, but don't you think you should spread out the 'Win' cards? Some sets of 100 have only one way to win and this set [3801 - 3900] has 11. --Gill smoke 14:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Not necessarily. I figured out that I hadn't been adding enough win conditions period. And adding a pile of win conditions now doesn't keep me or others from adding similar win conditions later-Bucky 22:06, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Fun with Semantics

Just asking, is "an Action" 'one' and "a Thing" 'it'? At my table that's how it is going to resolve (mostly because I still have to teach people to play). --Gill smoke 19:23, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Mostly correct. And kudos for teaching people to play.-Bucky 22:06, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

The Head of Vecna

According to lore Vecna still has his head. It was his hand and eye that were removed in his fight with Kas. But even if you removed Vecna's head Vecna would not be destroyed and would indeed eliminate you beyond resurrection for time and bother of getting his body back together. From a mechanics standpoint, I'm pretty sure The Head of Vecna could not perform it's action seeing how normally eliminated player's cannot take actions. The save from elimination cards usually act more like resurrection making you a new player, the rest are token based and let you keep going. Regardless there are none of those cards in this set, your repeated claims that the deck is Infinite doesn't account for how it is played. I was going to make a double whammy card like this myself, I was going to use the unplayable mechanic. --Gill smoke 12:46, 12 June 2009 (BST)

From a mechanics perspective, it's an extremely juicy target for text-modifying cards as well as a combo with anti-elimination cards. As for the lore, google it.-Bucky

I looked it up and although I played "Die Vecna Die!" our party was killed way before the head of Vecna appears, or the DM omitted it as foolishness. --Gill smoke 12:59, 19 June 2009 (BST)

Civil War and Golden Age

"While ... is in play, all other things have the text " did you mean instead of or in addition to their regular rules text? --Gill smoke 02:12, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Clarified. Not sure it was necessary.-Bucky 04:05, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

"All other Things gain the text..."? Binarius 09:01, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

In addition to their original rules text. For instance my hats do something now. --Gill smoke 18:25, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

And Marcel Marceau actually says something now? =O Binarius 22:06, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

No he performs an action ;) --Gill smoke 13:29, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Molten Hydrogen Oxide

Dude, that's just water. You might want to add a line break to make the flavor text line visible. --Gill smoke 14:50, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Sniper

Stealthy. I like it. The original contribution was missing the "text=" tag, which I have inserted (I hope with your permission, or at least forgiveness). On a side note, Sniper: on its way to challenging Insurance Policy, Booby Trap, and Taxation for a spot among the Most Frequently Used Card Titles in the deck? Time will tell... Binarius 23:39, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Rule Cards

Now that's a clever set of meta cards. (It was adding this comment that lead me to see your Snow comment) --Gill smoke 15:03, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Cards by Fanofphilosophy

fanofphilosophy keeps adding cards at places other than the end of the deck. Although this is not forbidden, the order of the cards is quite useful for tracing the development of certain ideas. -Bucky 00:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

"Create a card with any number of spellin or grammer mistakes and play it under another players control." - I don't know if it was intentional (and I'm not sure how you're expecting players to be able to fix the typos), but this is an easy instant-win card. --Kevan 22:14, 27 March 2007 (BST)

Sorry. I'm working on making it fair. Ideally, this card would be printed, and thus the edits would be made with pencil and/or pen. And, yes, all the errors were intentional, except for one. --fanofphilosophy

All right, Rouf Draft is fixed. . .I think. --fanofphilosophy

Oh, okay, so "all the mistakes are fixed" means "all the mistakes are spotted by other players". That works.

Cards can be created mid-game while playing online, by the way (at least through DvorakMUSH); you don't need an exception for that. --Kevan 01:17, 28 March 2007 (BST)

With "Desperado", the player who plays it would win even if there are fewer than 50 Things to destroy, making it a straight "I Win" card.-Bucky 01:52, 28 March 2007 (BST)

Clarified. --fanofphilosophy

Gray cards

Fanofphilosophy has been making a lot of gray cards lately. However, some of them are Actions and some of them are Things, so it's getting hard to scan his cards by eye.-Bucky 23:36, 28 March 2007 (BST)

That's only because I have no idea how the bgcolor system works, or what's "normal" for a thing or action. So I made it easy and made it all grey.--fanofphilosphy

For quick reference bgcolor=600 is Action-Red and bgcolor=006 is Thing-Blue. Unless you're doing something special (like Locations and Enemies from the Mario Bros. deck), that should be enough. If you want to know how those number work, let me know and I can point you to lots of web resources. MagiMaster 02:10, 30 March 2007 (BST)

I like 709 for things and 907 for actions.Fanofphilosophy 00:46, 15 April 2007 (BST)

Good thing nobody here has daltonism. Zaratustra 01:47, 24 April 2007 (BST)

Here's a quick reference then (if this is a good place for it):

006

Color

600

Color

907

Color

709

Color

Electrician

"the text Action: now reads Once per turn, you may" isn't always going to make grammatical sense, such as with "Action: Target player may show you any number of Action cards from their hand." in Crystal Ball. It'd be easier just to say something like "you may invoke that Action for free, once per turn". (And I don't think I'd want to have to deal with the effects of a Cyborg-Electrician...) --Kevan 11:04, 2 April 2007 (BST)

It's fixed, as well as the card Person, which has a similar effect. --fanofphilosphy

Cards by Kazz

Card "Striptease" is unsuitable for online play. -Bucky 23:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I suppose it is. Should I be keeping that in mind? I'll delete it. For the record, it was an Action: "If you remove all of your clothing immediately, you win." Kazz 23:19, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Eh, that seems okay; the player would just have to somehow prove that they'd done this. --Kevan 23:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, many of the cards by Kazz, when played, instantly unbalance the game in favor of whoever played them. While other cards, such as Magnitude Error, are quite powerful, few give their owner/user the sheer power of Horde, Throne, Pet, or Customs Board.

What, if anything, should be done about this? Horde is the worst offender, because not only are 9 Tokens cheap, but its protection effect also makes it powerful even without the victory condition. Throne is overpowered because there is only one card (Antimatter) that can destroy it without permission. Customs Board basically lets you see everyone's hand. Pet is overpowered for obvious reasons.

Again, should we adjust these cards? Should we introduce counter-cards knowing that they will probably not be used in the same deck? Or should we just let it go?-Bucky 06:12, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Uhm, apologies. I was the one that informed Kazz (among others) of the existence of this page, knowing of his tendency to do this kind of thing. Zaratustra 06:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The cards themselves are cool, they just need to be weakened. For example "Throne" would be fine if limited to negating one action per round, Horde would be fine without a victory condition (since it has a side effect of not allowing you to spend tokens) etc.-Bucky 07:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Given that this project is public, these cards are probably quite mild. We're bound to get straight "I win" cards coming in eventually.

Maybe we should view the card set as infinite and inevitably containing broken cards, and let players decide what subset to actually play with; the export functionality could be tweaked to allow "all cards except by this user" or "only include cards by these users". --Kevan 10:05, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure Win cards are broken. Filter choices should include filter out unMUSHable, maybe a random subset of XX cards.-gill_smoke

They're not broken, they're just boring. It's probably not worth adding a "mushable" field to all cards for the sake of a filter - a house rule that you can discard and redraw any cards that don't make any sense in your playing medium seems easy and obvious enough. --Kevan 19:56, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Cards by Kevan

Instant Speed

Does Instant Speed imply that that you could play an Action, then play another in response, then another in response to that, etc.? What about if you played a card that allowed you to draw? Would you be able to play the newly drawn cards in response to drawing them? (I'm only asking out of curiosity.) MagiMaster 18:03, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I suppose it does. Which isn't too powerful, but is a bit of a boring way for it to be used. I'll reword it. --Kevan 19:14, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Brand Loyalty

It seems that Brand Loyalty forces people to only use cards by Kevan. Perhaps it should say "except this card", or something? --fanofphilosophy

Good point. --Kevan 00:07, 29 March 2007 (BST)

Terrible Secret of Space

That last part doesn't need to be there. Robots aren't living things. CashCrazed 08:27, 30 March 2007 (BST)

It's a matter of opinion, it doesn't hurt to clarify. --Kevan 10:28, 30 March 2007 (BST)

The Element of Surprise

What if the card drawn can't be played in the current situation? --Kyevan 17:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Clearing the Air has the same problem, really. --Kyevan 17:39, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Good point; fixed. --Kevan 18:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Sodium Pentothal

This is possibly the most broken card in the game. It might as well read "Action:Flip a coin. If heads, target player loses the game." Except that it's more versatile than that. You can force a win in two turns. The relevant questions are: "Do I have (card X) in my hand?" (or any other question you know the answer to but they don't) and "Will you answer 'Yes' to the next question I ask you using Sodium Pentothal?" --Bucky 10:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Addendum: You can force another player to lose immediately with the question "Will I play another card this turn?" -Bucky 10:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Heh, good call. I've clarified what I was actually intending it to be used for. --Kevan 12:40, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Runaway Steamroller

Should be an action probably, not a thing. - Zt - 17:35, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I prefer it as a thing. It creates "food" for other cards, and threatens other power cards.--Gill smoke 19:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but probably as a thing it should not read: "Destroy a Thing and replace it with a Pancake token." but rather sth. like: "Each turn, destroy a thing..." or "When this comes into play..." That's all I wanted to say. - Zt - 20:00, 24. March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, this was a cut-and-paste error, it was meant to be an Action. --Kevan 22:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Queue Here

Is this card meant to refer only to non-token Things in play, or actually to all of them in the deck?Binarius 11:14, 1 August 2008 (BST)

In play. If all Thing cards in the draw pile counted as a "Thing", we'd be in trouble. --Kevan 13:52, 1 August 2008 (BST)

Arms Race

Wouldn't the "at least as many" phrase allow you to continue drawing as long as you wanted? Binarius 16:27, 4 August 2008 (BST)

Not the way I'm reading it. As soon as you have as many Things as your opponent, you have "at least as many", and have to stop. If you play the card when you already have more Things than your opponent, then you'd have to stop after the first time. --Kevan 17:20, 4 August 2008 (BST)

Market Forces

Since its action costs a money token to use, this could cause a stalemate if all money tokens were somehow destroyed. Its money creation action should probably be exempt from the money requirement.
--ChippyYYZ 21:04, 3 September 2008 (BST)

Archivist

Could I as an Archivist add a comment to the page with the datetime stamp as proof ie "<-- --Gill smoke 17:46, 24 September 2008 (BST) -->"? --Gill smoke 17:46, 24 September 2008 (BST)

A manually added datetime stamp could be forged, but it should be sufficient to go into the most recently archived page's history to show that you created the page. Binarius 44:44, 31 February 1913 (QED)

Schools of Magic

"When this comes into play, each player chooses a letter. A player can only play cards that contain the letter they chose." Contain the letter in the text or in the title? - Zt, 22:53, 01. October 2008 (CET)

Oh, good call, I meant to say title. --Kevan 23:06, 1 October 2008 (BST)

Spivak Shielding

"Cards which would use the incorrect "he/she" personal pronoun against you cannot be played." Does this mean:

I'm a she, the card says he, it doesn't operate against me? or

I'm a he or a she and the card says "he/she" which is hereby declared incorrect? Goldenboots 15:37, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Both, I suppose. Referring to someone as "he/she" is using both the correct and incorrect personal pronoun, which is enough to trigger it. --Kevan 15:50, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

What about "they"? The way I read it, that's not an "incorrect 'he/she' personal pronoun" because it's neither of those... Binarius 18:04, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Bruce

"While this card is in play, the title of all non-token Things in play is 'Bruce', and all tokens are Bruce tokens instead of their normal type. Action: Put a Bruce token into play."

First, way to nerf "University of Woolloomooloo Philosophy Department" which renames a Thing to "Bruce"! Second, when Bruce - *this* Bruce - goes out of play, do tokens and cards resume their old names? The word "normal" and the phrase "while this card is in play" (which is probably unnecessary since no rules continue after the Thing they are on is out of play) suggests we have to remember what all those tokens used to be called. Goldenboots 18:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Oops. I only had time to skim-read today, so missed that someone had already made the joke. Good job the deck is infinite, I suppose.

Yes, all Things would resume their own names when Bruce left play. I don't see this as being a "have to remember" thing, though - the Bruceness is just continually layered on top of the gamestate, which needn't actually be changed. (You wouldn't have to bother crossing out 'Gold' and writing 'Bruce' on a dozen tokens, you'd just wait until something happened that checked what type of tokens you had, and would treat them as Bruce tokens rather than Gold tokens.) --Kevan 19:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually both UWPD and Bruce can coexist. UWPD changes the name permanently. Now I have to think of a Sheila card. Goldenboots 02:55, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Malware

I didn't invent the game or anything but when you play a card on another player they become the possessor, the "You" changes to the owner. I've used similar effects with a token creation. I get the card you get the token.

Fixed. Thank you, masked stranger. --Kevan 23:13, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Wrapping Paper

"If a Thing has a Wrapping token on it, its card text is blank. When this comes into play, put a Wrapping token on all non-token Things. When a non-token Thing comes into play, put a Wrapping token on it. Any player may take an Action to destroy a Wrapping token." This works fine as is, but note that new Things will NOT get Wrapping tokens automatically unless someone has unwrapped "Wrapping Paper" Goldenboots 21:37, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Which would be tricky when its own text was blank. Fixed. --Kevan 23:13, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Is it your intention that, if Wrapping Paper is destroyed, all the leftover Wrapping tokens hang around, attached to other things but otherwise ineffectual? --Tweed Cap 17:17, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Cards by KillSmiley

The cards "Free-For-All" and "The Dreaded Legal Department" are colored and written as Actions, but are of type Thing. This should be corrected. -Bucky 03:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, he corrected it.-Bucky 05:25, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Cards by Ryan_1729

Zork Dork

For Zork Dork, the card type "Quiz" is meaningless. If it's an action, a type of "Action - Quiz" would at least tell players what to do with it. --Kevan 11:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

alright. --Ryan 1729 11:56, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Win conditions

I'm guessing you've not played any Nomic - all your "create a new card but it can't have a win condition" clauses are completely toothless; it's trivial to create a card saying "other players may never take any more turns" or "draw 1000 cards and play any number of them" or, indeed, "create another new card, and this one can say anything you like". --Kevan 21:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, small suggestion; each and every one of your cards has text coming out of the bottom. It's a card game, not a library. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zaratustra (talk • contribs) 23:23, 9 March 2007.

Your new "this card may not allow you to win this or the next turn" wording would still be broken by a card that said "Take two more turns after this one. You win at the start of the second turn." - any card that lets you create a new card with any wording is going to have loopholes. --Kevan 12:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Short of removing the cards, this seems like the best solution. It gives the other players time to draw a card like "Gotcha" or otherwise stop the player from winning. --Ryan 1729 23:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

How about "Any player may discard a card to remove the new card from the game"?-Bucky

Perfect. --Ryan 1729 03:19, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Lock and Key

Don't forget the "cards shouldn't refer to other cards" rule - it's very unlikely that your "Lock" and "Key" cards will both be drawn in the course of the same game. (Even if you meant "a 'Key' card" to mean "any card that could be considered a key", we've yet to see any sort of key card appear in 250-odd cards, so it isn't going to be a card type that occurs very often.)

Also, you seem a bit confused about the distinction between "destroy" and "discard"; reading the glossary might help. --Kevan 10:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Spamming the deck with duplicate "Key" cards isn't a particularly interesting solution to this. --Kevan 22:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Office

"If five or more cards that count as office supplies are played on this card..." - I'm guessing we're going to get five "This card counts as an office supply." cards from you, now. Please try to think a little harder about the infinite nature of the deck, and the "cards shouldn't refer to other cards" guideline. I've just reworded it to add a useful rule of thumb - if you made a deck from a random subpage of 100 cards, and added your card to it, and your card would be completely useless, then you should think about rewording it. --Kevan 11:22, 27 March 2007 (BST)

Office is just as useless in a game with less than five office supply cards as Alphabet coup, Playing With a Full Deck, The Obliteration of All Other Life Forms, Anagrammaton, Top Trumps and Eight Men Down and a few others without the necessary cards. There are also many cards that only interact with living things and as of right now only one card exists that counts as a living thing! Although there are a few that can create them. Also it is currently possible to randomly choose a deck with no way to win or lose and with no way to end the game short of abandoning it. --Ryan 1729 23:38, 27 March 2007 (BST)

Alphabet Coup and Full Deck both have the same specificity problem, but the others all rely on card aspects that are at least fairly common. I think you've overlooked "If there's an ambiguity, vote on it." in the Special Rules for this game (which does in fact cite "living things" as an example). It's much easier to have a vague voting rule for this sort of thing, than to have to guess what sorts of qualities future cards are going to be looking for. So you could word your Office card as "If five or more Things that you would find in a normal office..." and it could include earlier and later cards (like Receipt Drawer) which weren't aware of there being an "office supply" card trait.

You're absolutely right about randomly choosing a deck with no victory condition; Zara and I tried a MUSH game with cards 201-300, and both ended up resigning when we realised how rare and difficult the victory conditions were. When I get around to writing a customised export script, I'll add something to make sure that any random selection of cards includes a good number of victory conditions. --Kevan 00:12, 28 March 2007 (BST)

I thought the idea, as far as 'counting as whatever', was that you didn't have to specify most of the time and people just voted on it if they were unsure. I wouldn't think you'd have to specify 'office supplies' on stuff like paper and staples. You might have to specify on stuff that you think should be office supplies, but not everyone might, like coffee. MagiMaster 00:11, 28 March 2007 (BST)

Obscurity pays off

This card is an "I Win" card online because everyone has access to dice of any number of sides.-Bucky 02:45, 28 March 2007 (BST)

The electronic dice rolling machine on the MUSH, you mean? It's a bit of an "I win" card regardless - the race condition of "first player to" is meaningless, as the player who's drawn the card can just look for their dice and make sure they have them ready immediately before playing the card. --Kevan 10:01, 28 March 2007 (BST)

Okay, would you rather I tapered the reward down to some amount of money or gold tokens? --Ryan 1729 00:14, 30 March 2007 (BST)

Elephant Stampede

In case anyone cares, I just looked at the Sci-Fi Fantasy deck for the first time today. The Elephant Stampede from this deck was independently thought up. --Ryan 1729 03:07, 4 April 2007 (BST)

Name Game

I don't get Name Game. How is that supposed to work? It's really confusing. --fanofphilosophy

Take the number of letters in your first name. Say... five. As long as Name Game is in play you aren't allowed to directly say that number. For example, you and some friends are playing with real cards, and there's a pile of coins to be used as tokens; you ask someone closer to the coins to pass you five of the same type. If you actually said "five" then you would have to discard a card. You wouldn't have had to discard a card if you had said "one less than six," or "two more than three" or something like that. If you have no cards then say the number you are then eliminated.

I hope this helps, it's hard to explain fully on a card. If you have any suggestions for better wording please mention it here. --Ryan 1729 02:33, 4 April 2007 (BST)

Blue Wizard

The Blue Wizard (NEEDS FOOD BADLY) is a good idea, I just don't like the time limit. I have seen very few, if any, food/food-related cards besides the one I just made. What if there are no food/food-related cards in the deck for a particular game?Fanofphilosophy 02:13, 7 April 2007 (BST)

Laundromat

This card forces each player to give you a Quarter token every turn, regardless of whether or not they use the Action, and even if they don't have any. This does not seem to be the intent of the card.-Bucky 21:23, 21 April 2007 (BST)

Cards by The T

Shovel says to draw the bottom of the deck. However, in an infinite deck such a card may not exist. Similarly, a few other cards say to search the entire deck, which we can't do since we have not defined all the cards in the deck.-Bucky 18:20, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Although the deck's theoretically infinite, any actual game of it will involve a finite subset. (I'll probably end up putting an "output just 100 random cards" option on the card export, so that this can be played on the Dvorak Engine without crashing it.) --Kevan 18:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Cards by Zaratustra

"Spend 1 Energy to produce 1 Blood." - maybe I should reword "cards shouldn't refer to other cards" to stress the infinite thing more; even if there are other cards that refer to Energy and Blood in the deck, if they don't come up in the same game then this card is meaningless, and fairly useless. (Well, usable as a generic, effectively-blank Thing, but having a blank card in the set seems a bit of a waste, when it could have had a similar but game-affecting mechanic.) --Kevan 23:49, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

"Produce 1 Blood" is fine because other cards can read "Destroy/Spend 1 liquid Thing". likewise, "Spend 1 Energy" is fine because you can use many kinds of Energy, presumably including Heat, "Lightning Bolt" cards etc.-Bucky 23:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, that feels like it's straying into Blank White Card territory, where anything can mean anything if you argue it entertainingly enough; although that's fun, I think it's useful to keep the distinction that Dvorak has strict and consistent rules.

Maybe it'd be good to have a general rule about resolving arbitrary decisions - whenever anything is open to interpretation (like Katamari's "smallest Thing"), it goes to a straight vote, and if there's no majority verdict then it's resolved in some generic, automatic way. But Artificial Heart's "spend 1 Energy" puts far too much onus on the players to decide what "spend 1 Energy" counts as; whether a Lightning Bolt should generate more than 1 Energy, whether Springfield Nuclear Power Station should be able to "spend 1 Energy" every single turn without destroying itself, whether a player's sweeping Plasma Storm can power someone else's Heart, etc.

"Discard or destroy an electricity-related card you control, to put a Blood counter into play." would work better, I think, with players only having to vote on whether a particular card is "electricity-related" or not. --Kevan 00:18, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

There, better? Zaratustra 01:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think so. Argue this out with me if you think I've got the wrong idea about how this deck should work, though. --Kevan 01:37, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

"The Only Winning Move" is badly worded; For example, it allows you to win if at any point earlier in the game three other players had each skipped a turn for unrelated reasons. A better wording would be "You win the game when 3 of your turns have been skipped in this manner."-Bucky 02:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

About "The B": Are we meant to assume that if you use its Action twice, you may draw 1 card? Or are are we supposed to, say, cut the top card in the draw pile in half and put that in our hand?-Corrigan 12:21, 28 September, 2007 (UTC)

Yes. -- Zaratustra 01:50, 29 September 2007 (BST)

Does this mean that players are supposed to vote as to its meaning? -- Corrigan 10:18, 31 September 2007 (BST)

Cantor Set: This card's wording assumes a two-player game. It should be reworded to allow for a different number of players.-Bucky 06:24, 2 October 2007 (BST)

Cards by cashcrazed

Jihad

Would a player force his or her opponents to tell their religions? It would be unfair to let some tell and some not, and yet mean to force people to tell.--fanofphilosophy

I didn't figure a person's religion was any sort of personal secret. If they have a problem with revealing their religion, then I guess they just lose the Thing. CashCrazed 03:05, 30 March 2007 (BST)

Well, I agree that it probably wouldn't be a secret, but it's not something I would want brought up during a game either. MagiMaster 03:15, 30 March 2007 (BST)

The player who played it could reveal what their religion is, so the other players would just have to say whether their religion is the same or not. --Ryan 1729 04:23, 30 March 2007 (BST)

Cards by jtwe

The ironic theme is an interesting idea, but it seems that all the cards are dentrimental to the player who played them. This makes no sense from a competitve standpoint. Is this part of the joke?Fanofphilosophy 23:44, 3 May 2007 (BST)

Well, it's not really so much a "theme" as it is a handful of card titles / flavor texts from the same song. But... Ten Thousand Spoons cancels an opponent's Reaction, Rain on Your Wedding Day shuts down opponent's Actions for a turn, A Free Ride lets you play Russian Roulette or I'm Ending This risk-free, and Good Advice will give you an extra card every other turn or so. Which one is detrimental? Jtwe 01:11, 4 May 2007 (BST)

Whimsey, Turnabout Dvorak and Untap Phase

"Turnabout Dvorak" - 'tap' and 'untap' aren't defined anywhere (except possibly "Whimsey") and given that this deck is infinite, you shouldn't count on these three cards all coming up at once. -Bucky 05:44, 19 April 2008 (BST) I've played MTG so I know what tap and untap are, the average player might not. I think this is treading into Special rules category. As a matter of course while playing action abilities I tapped the card.

Tap and untap, are, in fact, not defined anywhere. This is a legitimate concern, but I was kind of assuming that enough people had played Magic the Gathering that someone at the table would know what it meant. (I should point out that at one point I wrote a card whose rules text stated "take first and advance each runner one base" and no one complained about that, so I figured I could get away with tap and untap. :) ) As for not having all three come up at once, I'm not worried about that; Untap Phase gives you an extra turn, Turnabout Dvorak is a draw two, and Whimsey, at worst, is a one-shot draw 1 or discard 1 if you control any other Thing, so they're each useful on their own, but they get better in tandem. Jtwe 02:13, 21 April 2008 (BST)

Anyway, with the better random card generator coming axon, there is at least a bit more of a chance of finding all three.

A Lead Role in a Cage

Normally at the beginning of your turn you draw a card. Do you mean this card's beginning of turn effect to be, draw an additional card? --Gill smoke 11:16, 2 October 2008 (BST)

Yes, an additional card. It probably should specify that. Jtwe 15:31, 2 October 2008 (BST)

Mana Ramp

Shouldn't Mana Ramp specify allowable land token types on creation. (perhaps parenthetically) --Gill smoke 16:20, 2 October 2008 (BST)

Nope. The only tokens it produces are Land tokens; that is, tokens named Land. If you happen to control Sherwood Forest or Mount Fuji or something they contribute to the extra Action ability too, but all you're getting from the Ramp is Land. Although, if I got rid of the mention of Plains, etc., I would have room for the flavor text, which, of course, is "YEEEEEEEEEEEE HA!" Jtwe 17:05, 2 October 2008 (BST)

I see the semantic difference now "Land, Plains, ..."--Gill smoke 03:34, 3 October 2008 (BST)

Archival

We've got 99 cards so far - maybe we should archive off every hundred into its own linked page, to stop the main page from getting too heavy. I suppose wait until we have 120 or so, so that the page doesn't look too blank when we archive it. --Kevan 12:16, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Almost 150 now. Zaratustra 21:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

There are 220 at the time of this editing --Ryan 1729 12:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks like we might have to archive this talk page sometime soon. --Ryan 1729 03:10, 4 April 2007 (BST)

Perhaps we could split it into a section on the deck itself, and a section on specific cards. Personally, I dislike archived talk pages.Fanofphilosophy 23:44, 3 May 2007 (BST)

I've noticed that the Infinite Dvorak deck now has, in its unarchived page, over 200 cards in it. This should have been split a while ago. I would do it, but I don't know how. --Corrigan 04:20, September 8 2007 (UTC)

I'll post the directions Edit the card page. At the top copy and paste the last card set ie ", \[\[\/Cards 801-900\|801-900\]\]" change to the next hundred. Select the top 100 cards and cut. save the page, click on the link you just created, paste the cards in save copy the info box from the previous hundred then edit the new set and paste the info box in. edit it for the right set and save. "easy peasy." --Gill smoke 03:35, 3 October 2008 (BST)

Infinity

Is the deck supposed to be one of each of an infinite number of cards, an infinite number of each of a finite number of cards, or an infinite number of infinitely many cards? This would effect the probability of things like getting two Annoyance cards on top of the library, etc. MagiMaster 06:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The way I see it, it's an infinite number of different cards, one each. We think of the number as infinite because there's no limit to the number of cards we can create and we'll only be playing some of all the different cards at a time anyway due to physical or engine constraints. BiggerJ 09:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

That was my thinking as well. --Kevan 12:41, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Backdoor Special Rules?

Maybe this is just me seeing things from a Nomic perspective, but cards like Rules Misunderstanding and There are 10 kinds of people in the world are Actions which create ongoing effects - effectively it's adding a special rule to the game. Is this good or bad?

It seems a bit untidy from the player memory perspective (most Dvorak decks and similar card games require that players only have to read the cards on the table to find out what's going on), and also a bit overpowered - if a Thing adds an ability or restriction to the game, there are all sorts of ways to destroy or remove or reword that Thing. But if an Action says "Until a winner ith declared all playerth mutht thpeak like thith.", there's nothing that any player can do to reverse that, unless there's a rare "terminate all background effects" card (which might never get drawn). We could spiral out into card mechanics that add and remove background effects, as we did with tokens, but should we nip it in the bud instead? --Kevan 09:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Since there is currently no penalty for breaking or forgetting these rules players could slowly faze them out with no ill effects. Also if such a card is destroyed is it still binding? --Ryan 1729 10:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

If these cards were Things, then their effects would immediately stop being binding upon destruction; Things only have an effect while they remain in play. The rules have no specific opinion about an Action that says "for the rest of the game, X", but given that the Action card doesn't say "until this card is somehow removed from the game, X", I think most players would interpret the effect as continuing. --Kevan 10:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Rules Misunderstanding has been changed. Zaratustra 14:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, in the "thpeech" card example a player could just say "I am the winner" and (depending on interpitaion) negate the effect.(Note: I did not see this possible loophole when creating this card.) We could reclassify these cards as things that are immediately moved to the discard pile after being played to achieve the same effect. (Interestingly no one has complained about my equally if not more indestructable "Catch 22" card.) --Ryan 1729 12:24, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Things that move immediately to the discard pile and leave a ghostly permanent effect would give exactly the same problem; you have ghostly permanent effects floating around that players have to remember the exact wording of, and which they can't do anything to destroy. It would be better to have these rules written on Things which stay in play.

(And for what it's worth, I'd say that the common-sense game rule interpretation of "all players must thpeak like thith" is "anyone who doesn't is therefore no longer a player".)--Kevan 12:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

"Catch 22" Is in fact destructable with any of {Wrath of Bucky, Brazen Buckyism, Wikipedia Says It's True} and probably others I'm not remembering.-Bucky 15:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Alphabet coup

As of addition of card "Fun Time!" it is now possible(though very unlikely) to win using card "Alphabet coup." --Ryan 1729 12:03, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

It was possible anyway with "Pocket Universe".-Bucky 15:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Spam

Is this card too obnoxious? It would grind the game to a halt if everyone simply spent their turn drawing Spam from the top of the pile, then using their Action to put it back there for the next person. CashCrazed 09:06, 28 March 2007 (BST)

Not necessarily. Remember, there are several cards that cause the drawing of multiple cards, and others that send cards from the draw pile to the discard pile. And anyway, I don't think that players would want to continue to play Spam over and over; that would get boring pretty quickly. Corrigan 18:18, 19 September 2007 (BST)

Export problems

The 'Print this deck' and 'Generate MUSHcode' pages for this deck seem to skip certain cards for some reason. Is this fixable? BiggerJ 05:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Seeing as it seems to skip my cards, perhaps The underscore in Ryan_1729 is the problem? I'll temporairily change one of the two Switcheroos to see if that fixes it. --Ryan 1729 08:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

That didn't work. To be specific it seems to skip newer cards and all of my cards. What (if anything) is done to upgrade the 'Print this deck' and 'Generate MUSHcode' pages when new cards are created? --Ryan 1729 09:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks like it was because you were the only person to capitalise "card" at the start of each template. I've updated the export functionality to cope with this (it's an external script that I wrote myself, so there's no public access to it). --Kevan 10:43, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

That would be because I copied and pasted from the template each time. The price you pay for laziness I suppose. --Ryan 1729 12:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I just tried the print this deck page and noticed that "Fly on the wall" and "Action prism" had no text and type unknown. I removed some unnecessary spaces and they seem to work. --Ryan 1729 12:51, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Trip reports

Has anyone actually tried playing this yet? I would very much like to see descriptions of playthoughs of this game (and, if possible, transcripts of games of it played in the Dvorak MUSH engine). --BiggerJ 07:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Not yet. I'd rather wait until I changed the deck export so that it could filter out cards by specific users, but maybe I'll find time to do that today. --Kevan 12:08, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Time found. You can now specify a comma-separated list of users whose cards you want to skip; they'll be crossed out, and listed as "skipcard", which the Dvorak Engine should just ignore as an illegal command.

We should be able to skip individual cards, too, without excluding other cards by the same author. See "loophole" for an example.-Bucky 17:17, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, since you're cutting and pasting the cards anyway, you can put them through a text editor first, and just delete any cards you don't want to use.--Kevan 19:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

So would anybody be up for testing this in either the Dvorak MUSH Engine or Apprentice, over the next few days? --Kevan 14:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm up for it. Since you usually show up on my early afternoon, Friday and weekends are good days for me. Zaratustra 15:54, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm busy tonight and out tomorrow, but could maybe manage Sunday. I've added an upcoming games page to attempt to coordinate this sort of thing, if anyone wants to call a specific time and date. --Kevan 16:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, why would you want to leave out cards by specific people? --BiggerJ 11:45, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

If there are some broken or annoying-to-process cards in the set (I remember there being a few), then they're likely to have been written by the same person. --Kevan 19:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Have just tried feeding the entire deck into the Dvorak Engine on the newly-created Dvorak MUSH, and it choked around the 250 mark. Not sure if it's hitting a configurable limit, or something intrinsic to the TinyMUSH software, but I suppose it doesn't really hurt to play with a subset of 200 or so cards. I'll throw together something to randomly select which 200 to use. --Kevan 17:48, 25 March 2007 (BST)

I just played two games with Zaratustra over MUSH with the first 100 cards. The first game ended on the first turn because of a slow reaction to "Leverage Scam"; the second game ended when I Hoarded 9 Tokens. Branch Statement proved to be impractical because we couldn't implement cutting the deck properly. I can imagine it would be difficult to keep track of tokens, because the Notes would get crowded fast.-Bucky 22:02, 25 March 2007 (BST)

I played a couple of games with Zaratustra as well, using the second hundred - he put a Triplicate onto Lightning Reflexes in the first one, but slipped up by playing Draw Two in response to Tarot Reading (which had given him a Thing) and lost the game. The second game ended with him getting Power Level Scouter and a Crowded Room. Can't remember any broken cards, but BZAAAAARG could use clearer wording as to how exactly a player's turn should be randomised. --Kevan 00:05, 26 March 2007 (BST)

Fixed BZAAAAARG, thanks for the critique. Just one clarification I couldn't fit in the card text that could be easily deduced anyway: if the player whose turn is randomized has only Actions or only Things in his/her hand, randomization of what kind or kinds of cards get played during that turn won't be necessary. --BiggerJ 09:41, 26 March 2007 (BST)

I'd go for tighter wording, even if it means sacrificing some of the card's possibilities (maybe "Choose a player. On their next turn, they must play one random Thing followed by one random Action, if possible. All decisions required by them shall be made randomly.", or something - "randomized by a random number generator" is a bit of a meaningless tautology anyway).

When you're actually playing with these cards, the ones with more than a few lines of text become quite heavy and wearying, a lot more so than reading them in isolation on the site. --Kevan 11:28, 26 March 2007 (BST)

Okay, I've used your suggested wording. Thanks for the help. --BiggerJ 12:42, 26 March 2007 (BST)

Deck status

The note in that box-thing at the top says that this deck is unfinished, and thus unplayable. But people have played it. Perhaps we should change the wording? --fanofphilosophy

Good point. Changed. --Kevan 12:40, 2 April 2007 (BST)

Cards by Jindra34

I would like to know at the very least what people think of my "tack on" cards.--Jindra34

It's good, it's a nice, fresh mechanic. There's some potential for it to interact weirdly with certain actions (such as Russian Roulette) where the extra sentence would get tacked onto a conditional, but I suppose that's part of the fun. --Kevan 13:58, 19 April 2007 (BST)

Wow i'm being mimicked i'm so flattered...--Jindra34

Ink Pen may be -slightly- overpowered, as you can just add 'Win.' to any Action card in your hand.

Does win make any sense as a sentence on its own, and would you be able to convince a majority of the players of that? I think not.

Excuse me, but could you explain which things Heavenly Bow(card 604) has access to? As in, would it allow you yo remove a foes card and place it under the draw pile? --[[User:|NARF]] 22:06, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Cards by Corrigan

Last night, you seem to have violated several of the rules of the deck, namely
1)Don't add more than three cards at a time: You seem to have added 15 at once.
2)Don't change other people's cards:You edited Jindra34's "Swap meet" and Ryan_1729's "Role play," "Roll play" and "minimal".
3)Cards shouldn't refer to other cards:Your card "Reggae" uses a category far to precise; there is only one Musician in the entire deck so far. "Red Scare" does the same thing with "Right wing politician".
4)(Unwritten)Add all new cards to the end of the card list: 6 of these 15 cards were inserted into the middle of the pile.

Please follow the rules. -Bucky

Welcome to Dvorak, Corrigan - I've moved your excess cards out to a sub-page of your user page, if you want to add them back in again later. The multiple cards and the title corrections aren't too serious, but they're not a great precedent to set, either.

(And the thing about adding to the end is written, by the way, Bucky; it's part of the first rule.) --Kevan 12:41, 29 May 2007 (BST)

Kevan you also moved one of my cards that he hijacked to the list --Jindra34

Oops - sorry about that. --Kevan 10:47, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Bratva: This card is for all practical purposes the same as "Throne" on page 1. -Bucky 02:16, 4 June 2007 (BST)

We're getting a few repeats now. I think it's fine - we shouldn't expect people to have to read hundreds of previous cards before adding their own, and seeing the same mechanics crop up with different names and styles is fun. The deck is infinite, after all... --Kevan 13:39, 29 June 2007 (BST)

Showdown: In a normal game without a specific card there will only be one draw pile for everyone to use. Thus this card needs to be reworked.Jindra34 1:51 5 June 2007.

Clavin Ball: Is this card even remotely legal?-- Jindra34

The game of Dvorak has Special Rules, so it's fine to create new ones during the course of the game. It's no different to a card with text of "reword this to anything and it can't ever be destroyed". --Kevan 10:47, 8 June 2007 (BST)

What about the rule that there would be no special rules? --Jindra34

Oh, good point. Maybe this would be better written as just another "create a new card" card, for consistency's sake. --Kevan 00:20, 10 June 2007 (BST)

"Nomic" gets around this by allowing that rule to be changed. And cards take presidence over special rules anyway.-Bucky

"Don't make any special rules" is a card-design guideline, in the same sense as "don't add more than three cards at a time", rather than a special rule itself.

Normal Dvorak allows the creation and deletion of special rules - it just seemed a bad idea for this game, when every card was from a separate parallel universe, and any special rule created by a card would never be explicitly referenced by any other cards. --Kevan 10:01, 10 June 2007 (BST)

Reduce, Reuse and Recycle all break the "no special rules" guideline by introducing ongoing effects that players are required to remember. I think there's only one card that can actually end these effects (your own Bono card), so in a randomly infinite game, these are all going to be permanent, invisible effects. They might as well just be Thing cards. --Kevan 13:39, 29 June 2007 (BST)

Depressi's 'Blackboard cleaning' card also removes lingering Action effects. If it is against the rules to have long-lasting Actions, why is that aspect of 'Blackboard cleaning' still there? I know this is a little late. --Corrigan 16:52 8 September 2007 (BST)

He probably didn't notice the rule. There are plenty of old cards that do broken or pointless things. --Kevan 12:01, 9 September 2007 (BST)

Double-Sided Forcefield:This card needs rewording because it causes a paradox as soon as it is played (since its effect forbids itself).-Bucky 05:46, 8 August 2007 (BST)

Mercantilism: "A player can gain control of a Thing with a cornervalue by giving its controller an amount of Money tokens equal to its cornervalue" means that nothing can ever be actually stolen, as the seller can immediately buy it back for the same amount. --Kevan 10:45, 18 August 2007 (BST)

The Past-Seer and The Future-Seer: I know we're supposed to assume that there's an infinite amount of cards, but if you got these two cards you could given enough time search the deck for any card you wanted and it'd be pretty time consuming and kill the pace of the game. You'd also be able to make sure your opponents never got any useful cards. --Wikey 06:24, 22 August 2007 (BST)

I think any reasonable opponent would admire the combo and let it be played as "pick any card from the deck, shuffle it then put that card on top", to save time. --Kevan 10:12, 25 August 2007 (BST)

Zero, Zero and Zero. Don't forget the "cards shouldn't refer to other cards" rule. In an infinite deck, you're unlikely to draw two zeroes... --Kevan 10:05, 25 August 2007 (BST)

Having a single Zero is useful on its own, so I'd say it's forgivable. They also combo with anything that clones cards. Jtwe 16:42, 25 August 2007 (BST)

Energy Concept is a nice idea, but I imagine that "they must destroy 1 Energy token" is missing a "...they control." --Kevan 11:58, 2 September 2007 (BST)

Do you realize how powerful an "Action: Destroy target Thing" card is? It's been taboo up until recently, when you added several such cards. -Bucky 23:04, 19 September 2007 (BST)

You could also create cards with defensive effects. That would make those Things less powerful. -Corrigan 18:53, October 4, 2007 (BST)

This is an infinite deck, though, and most cards won't have those effects. --Kevan 13:40, 5 October 2007 (BST)

Closest to Mao as We Can Get... "Whenever a player's hand is empty, they win." is pretty powerful in itself, given that you just have to play this card when the rest of your hand is empty. --Kevan 09:29, 12 October 2007 (BST)

"Save", "Damn" - These cards need reworking if I'm reading them correctly, as they violate the "no special rules" rule due to their lasting effects.-Bucky 05:00, 14 May 2008 (BST)

Having text on tokens is a bit of a weird fix to this, since tokens don't normally have text, and it would still need to be tracked somewhere to work. If we want a token with text, I think we usually just say "make a new Thing card with the following text". But Damn and Save could just be Things that get played under an opponent's control, I think. --Kevan 00:18, 23 May 2008 (BST)

As for tokens with text, I think the wording I used on Mass Haste is probably as clear as it's going to get, for whatever that's worth. But I agree that Damn and Save could easily be Things. --Jtwe 18:12, 23 May 2008 (BST)

Communist Fashion

Cards 701-800. Violates "No Lasting Effects" (No Special Rules). --Pongo 09:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Corpse Jelly

Another one! It's a card whose effect appears to outlast its lifetime. "If the Thing ever refers to itself by name, replace its name with 'Corpse Jelly'." --Pongo 18:17, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorrow

Which way are you supposed to round? --Tweed Cap 15:09, 12 April 2008 (BST)

Suggestion: If you have an odd number when you have to divide, create another token to make an even number. --Tweed Cap 15:15, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Invade Iraq

More violation of the lingering game effect guideline. If you want to create tokens with text on them, the cleanest ways are either just create new cards with given content during the game, or to have a Thing that defines the game abilities of the tokens, but only for as long as that Thing sticks around.

The current wording actually raises some unintuitive problems - if I play a "create a token of any type" card three turns later and choose "Oil", then my Oil token won't have any special abilities, because it wasn't hit by the "write this text on these tokens" part of the Action from three turns ago. --Kevan 12:03, 12 June 2008 (BST)

It's all fixed now; I changed it into a Thing called "Occupation of Iraq". --- Corrigan 14:53 July 4, 2008 (BST)

Ilgeayidzed Jistogu

Copycat. Did you really have to make it not a shift-cipher? I swear I'm gonna figure this thing out.--ChippyYYZ 01:47, 23 July 2008 (BST)

I lied. I tried and it didn't work.--ChippyYYZ 21:23, 18 May 2009 (BST)

False Friends

Does this affect only instances of those words on cards, or the definitions of the words themselves? When you draw a card at the beginning of your turn, do you have to discard one instead? And how about discarding when you're past maximum hand size?--ChippyYYZ 21:23, 18 May 2009 (BST)

After playing with this card a bit, it seems this is the most important card in any game it appears in. Not only is it nearly impossible to destroy, but it causes some cards to become fairly useless (anything that targets things) and others to become preposterously powerful (Full Circle, The Answer Lies Within, Nihilism). It does funny stuff to the phrase "discard pile" too.--ChippyYYZ 23:51, 20 May 2009 (BST)

Celestia

Worst Rule 3 violation I've ever seen. -Bucky

I agree, to preserve the flavor the card should probably be "if you control 6 other ponies" sort of thing --Gill smoke 13:25, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

That would make it a merely really bad Rule 3 violation. You may have to just redesign the card. If you want a win condition, you might have it gather Friendship Tokens based on the number of ponies you control or something. And I would change the name to "Princess Celestia" because I'm nitpicky.--ChippyYYZ 16:13, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Cards by GreenLiquid

I have a strong objection to the way you worded the last sentence card. First, there are several cards which could usually reverse such an effect (such as Wand of Cancellation in the 201-300 block), but cannot due to that clause. Second, with the way it's worded, playing it a second time will not reverse the effect; it will merely allow a Wand of Cancellation to do its work. A better wording would be "This effect ends when Greatest Ploy Ever is played a second time." --Bucky 06:08, 2 October 2007 (BST)

It's also in direct violation of the "No Special Rules" rule. -Bucky 05:03, 3 October 2007 (BST)

The Best Card Ever

Is this card too... awkward to keep? --Kyevan 03:15, 20 October 2007 (BST)

It's completely meaningless if you're playing online. It's also completely meaningless within the game. It also violates the "no lasting effects of actions" rule.-Bucky 09:31, 20 October 2007 (BST)

But it's fun! If you read El Goonish Shive, anyway. Hmm... I'll pull it from the deck and keep it on my user page. Sound good? --Kyevan 14:19, 20 October 2007 (BST) (Edited: Oops! Forgot to sign)

Cards by Eric F

Saruman's Icy Storm

I recently edited it for spelling and grammar... I hope that's allowed. "No one can destroy opponants[sic] things"...I'm not sure what that means. Surely it means, "during his extra turn, the player of this card cannot destroy opponents' things". Or does it mean "for the rest of this game, the no-one can destroy their opponents' things". The latter violates the "no lasting effects" rule. Maybe Eric forgot to change his Action to a Thing. --Pongo 10:44, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Leaving spelling intact is sometimes useful for letting other users quickly judge the quality of a card (or a user's entire card output - there's an export filter that lets you ignore all cards by a given user); there's also the risk that you might "correct" someone's intentional misspelling. I don't really mind either way, though. --Kevan 10:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Shower of Arrows

Who is "they"? Does the player choose who to target? Is the target picked at random? Is everyone except the player of the card targeted? It should be specified. --Pongo 10:44, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Cards by Gill smoke

To counter the immense and ever-increasing size of this page, the older part of this section has been moved to my talk page.--Gill smoke 15:10, 4 June 2009 (BST)

Gloconda

This card should be fixed to say "if you control no other Things." Since Gloconda is a Thing itself, it would be impossible to actually win with it. - [User:Corrigan|Corrigan]] 20:27, 3rd October 2011 (PST)

Done --Gill smoke 18:39, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Cards by Pongo

Summon Pink Elephant

Summon Pink Elephant Seems quite powerful, I loose my turn because I can't destroy a token, what happens when I do? is it destroyed? The way it's worded makes it seem like it remains in play even after I "kill" it. If I kill it with an action card do I then get to play a Thing? How would I remove it?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by gill_smoke (talk • contribs).

Yeah, the wording is a bit woozy on this one - it'd be clearer if worded as "may not play cards which do not destroy the token", as "may only play cards" potentially means that you can't draw or use action abilities or breathe. And "for as long as they control it" is an invisible pseudo-rule. This could just be simplified to a Thing that comes into play under an opponent's control... --Kevan 10:52, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

the bigger problem, I have it, how do I remove it? It's a hallucination. It's unclear if "remove a token" action removes it; because I may only play cards that remove unliving tokens. Does the effect happen? I also think the colored part should be pink -Gill smoke 17:05, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

It's a token, so it's a Thing, so any "destroy a Thing" card will deal with it. I'm not sure why you're talking about removing unliving tokens. --Kevan 17:49, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Boot Disk probably needs to exclude itself from the "no Things in play" clause of its own ability... --Kevan 17:35, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Done. --Pongo 20:55, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Expensive New Drug

Expensive New Drug "When this is played, choose any effects you wish to protect a card of your choice from, erase this sentence and note that on this card. At the beginning of your turn, remove a money token you own or destroy this card. Action: Change the card you are protecting."

I think I understand the Action ability (it means, choose a different card to protect and unprotect the old one) but it seems ambiguous. Couldn't a player argue that "change the card" means, for instance, change the ruletext to whatever I want? Also, the protection: can I protect a card from having its owner lose? From having its owner's opponent win? From being crowded by any other Things being played? Since the card says "any effects", plural, can I choose all of these plus destruction, removal from the game, changes to ruletext, encroachment by tokens, AND being overruled by another card? Goldenboots 15:16, 25 October 2008 (BST)

"Any effects which directly affect the card itself" is the intentional meaning. "Having its owner lose" or "havings its owner's opponent win" are not effects which I see to affect the card itself. "Change the card" to me seems clear enough, but I'll remove the ambiguity, if at the price of increasing the card's verbosity. --Pongo 15:29, 25 October 2008 (BST)

Flying Spaghetti Monster

The text flows out of the card. At least in my browser. Maybe take out the line breaks? - Zt, 13:46, 13. November 2008 (CET)

I don't see that as a problem. You can export it or click edit to see the missing sentence. Pongo 16:47, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Lack of Phonetic Appeal

"Cards shouldn't refer to other cards". There are 11 Boons in the deck of 4000 cards. The chances of this card doing anything in a given subset are extremely small. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bucky (talk • contribs).

The card is for the most part intended as a joke. Anyway, I can't really fix it without deleting the card. --Pongo 14:53, 6 June 2009 (BST)

Whisper of Yog-Sothoth

Three issues with this: 1)you should "play" the cards rather than "copy them into play". This is important if you copy an Action 2)Effort to play: If I'm playing this card in an actual game, I need to hold up the game while I look through the Archive for five different Lovecraftian cards to play. If I don't know my basic Lovecraft facts, this could take a while... 3)Power level - Getting five decent cards in play at once is probably a lot stronger than you meant this card to be. -Bucky 22:06, 6 June 2009 (BST)

Okay:

1) I hope I've addressed this issue with the modifications/clarifications I've made.

2) Ditto (cards may be played repeatedly).

3) Overpowered cards are not objectionable for this particular deck.

--Pongo 11:16, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Pirate-Global Average Temperature Correlation

Not that I mind, but your Author tag is too long. It's kicking the rest of the cards out of alignment. I liked the strike through. --Gill smoke 22:08, 9 June 2009 (BST)

Ignorance is Strength

"You may ignore any effect of an opponent's card" needs clarifying. Does 'ignoring' something completely prevent it from happening? (as worded, I'd say no) Does ignoring an effect that would eliminate you keep you from being eliminated? (arguable) Does ignoring something that only affects players who aren't you change what happens? (as worded, probably not but it isn't clear) Also, if your goal is to make cards fun to play with, you should word it in such a way that other players can potentially remove/disable the card; otherwise it will usually render the game unplayable.-Bucky 03:30, 15 June 2009 (BST)

Cards by ZT

All Hallows' Eve

It's completely impratical. Who the hell takes notes of what exactly what each player discards? The card is practically unplayable. --Pongo 17:50, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Yep, changed it. Something else: is it OK for cards to let you search the deck for another card? (E.g.: killer bees) The deck is theoretically infinite, so this could be tedious. On the other hand, it's not really infinite. Suggestions? --Zt 20:42, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, allowing searching of the deck is fine, but it is recommended the cards you can search for are not too specific, as that violates the "cards shouldn't refer to other cards" rule. I don't think impractical cards are forbidden as such, but they make the game tricky. Killer Bees is fine as a card. Pongo 16:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

You bought this vacuum cleaner and...

The sentence that says "At the beginning of your turn you are eliminated." should either say "At the beginning of your next turn you are eliminated." or "At the end of your turn you are eliminated." -Gimlear 20:52, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

"At the beginning of your next turn you are eliminated." is sth. else, as it triggers only once. "At the end of your turn" is sth. else, because you have less time to destroy "You bought this vacuum cleaner and". Maybe I should change it to: "At the beginning of each of your turns..."? Or does this sound strange? - Zt - 17:44, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Why would you need to be eliminated more than once? -Gimlear 01:28, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

If you have, say, a Get Out of Jail Free (page 2) in your hand the first time.-Bucky 02:53, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Changed it to: "Whenever your turn ends you are eliminated." Sounds odd maybe, but it should make clear that it triggers every turn. - Zt - 14:56, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

You Will Never Dance Alone

Is this card's ability meant to recurse infinitely and give you an infinite number of tokens? If not, it should be reworded. -Bucky 21:22, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the intention is pretty clear. Do you mean it should be worded more like "Whenever another card generates a Single Token This card generates one too."-Gill smoke 01:12, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm just stupid and I totally didn't see the infinite recursion. Reworded it. Hope it's clear now. (You could still have an infinite recursion with two of these things in play now.) - Zt - 12:12, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Porn Movie Factory

I think it is common practice to put the come into play effects before the Action abilities, the way the card looks is it gets destroyed only when you play the action ability. I don't think that's what you intend. --Gill smoke 23:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. - Zt - 12:12, 26. March 2008 (UTC)

Gravity cannon

This card is way overpowered, in a two player game I win. In multi player after it hits the table, every other player can eliminate 2 other players (or or their proxies like extra lives). One for a Thing then one for the Action. To tone it down I'd make it only an action ability. I'd also consider adding a cost to play or use like destroy an energy token. I think there are other win conditions in this hundred. Otherwise it's a fine card. -Gill smoke 16:11, 2 April 2008 (BST)

There is no rule disallowing overpowered cards. They're not encouraged, but they're not disallowed because the deck is "infinite" anyway. You've made straight "I win" cards before. Check cards 1401-1500. --Pongo 16:15, 2 April 2008 (BST)

Actually, unless I'm reading it wrong, this is underpowered. You play it, and then you've played your Thing for the turn, so you can't use its ability instead of playing an Action and a Thing. Then your opponent goes, walks over to the cannon, turns it around, and blasts you with it. To fire it safely, you'd need to be able to play two Things and an Action in one turn, or somehow play it at the end of an opponent's turn, or something. What I want to know is, does this count as an "Action ability" for the purpose of Rickrolling it? Jtwe 20:04, 2 April 2008 (BST)

I concur. I'd say it does, because it seems to require one to use both their action and their thing ability for that turn. The Rickroll card effectively cancels a player's action, so I'm assuming in this case, since the thing ability relies on the action ability and vice versa, that the player effectively loses their thing ability as well. --Pongo 09:01, 3 April 2008 (BST)

"Action and Thing" = "instead of playing an action and instead of playing a thing". At least that's how I understand it. So jtwe is right, it's underpowered, unless you play in teams or you find a way to play more than one object per turn. As the thing ability doesn't work without the action ability, I'd also assume that all "counter an action" effects should eliminate it. - Zt - 13:40, 3. April 2008 (UTC)

Ohhhhh, I understood it's ability to be playable as either, not both an Action and a Thing --Gill smoke 18:10, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Gunpowder Factory

"Whenever another thing than this is destroyed, destroy all things." ... thing other than this card ... might be better wording? -Gill smoke 19:00, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Fixed. - Zt - 12:18, 8. April 2008 (UTC)

Rune of Haste

"Discard n cards. Then choose an Action or Thing ability and use it 2ⁿ times" Ooh! I think i'll discard 4 cards and play one 2 to the 4th power times!--NARF 13:01, 23 September 2008 (BST)

Your point being? --Kevan 13:30, 23 September 2008 (BST)

Maybe he thinks the card is overpowered? Dunno. - Zt 00:06, 24 September 2008 (CET)

Hmm... If it is overpowered, then how about n to the 2nd power? Although you WOULD get a slight bonus at 3... -- Nehh 09:13 GMT Saturday 30th May 09.

Albert Camus

Zombies, eh? I guess sometimes truth is...stranger than fiction? Binarius 21:25, 24 September 2008 (BST)

This could win "Best Card". Or at least "Wittiest Card".--ChippyYYZ 23:49, 24 September 2008 (BST)

Thank you. And he definitely did. - Zt, 20:35, 25.09.2008 (CET)

Oh, and in case sb. cares: the card that made me laugh most is Corrigan's "The Lord of the Xerox". (1001-1100) I always imagine the angry boss shouting that line. Hilarious. - Zt, 20:43, 25.09.2008 (CET)

I knew who he was. He stole the idea I had in high school for a novel, only he wrote it in 1942. --Gill smoke 20:32, 25 September 2008 (BST)

Interesting. Which novel? - Zt 09:33, 27 September 2008 (CET)

The Stranger -Gill smoke 21:28, 28 September 2008 (BST)

Homo Neanderthalensis

Bub is a real guy I work with and that would be something he would say. I'm trying to come up a card to go with "Why don't you go outside and practice falling down until I get there."-Bub I know its a remove and come back mechanic, but I can't get the embarrassing nature of the comment in. -Gill smoke 21:29, 28 September 2008 (BST)

Bub could become the new mascot of the Infinite Dvorak deck. We just have to pay attention to stay in character when we write those lines. It's harder for me as I don't know him, but I'd definitely like to see him appear on more cards. - Zt 18:02, 29 September 2008 (CET)

I've told him about it and he's touched but bewildered. Think blue collar redneck with an attitude. He doesn't cuss (much) so it makes it easier to be able to use him for direct quotes. A couple of priceless gems are now on my user talk page. -Gill smoke 02:36, 1 October 2008 (BST)

Great. Can't wait to see new cards with these quotes. - Zt, 22:54, 01. October 2008 (CET)

TYPE

Are you trying to break things? normally we have actions and things what kind is type? Was it from copying ChippyYYZ's untyped thing?

Yes, it was a copy paste mistake. Thank you. - Zt, 06. October, 13:03 (CET)

Hyperdimensional World-Eating Blackhole

"Whenever a Thing is removed from the game, draw a card and remove target thing from the game" "Once it gets started, there's no turning back"

Wait- if one Thing is removed, the controller of HWEB gets to remove all the Things, one by one, drawing a card for each. If a Thing is removed by HWEB, it triggers HWEB. I guess the controller could stop at a certain point by targetting HWEB. Goldenboots 02:44, 16 October 2008 (BST)

Oh, good point! Then there IS turning back. You could remove all opponents' Things and leave your own Things in play. I still don't think it's too powerful, because you need another card to remove a Thing in the first place. - Zt, 13:51, 17. October 2008 (CET)

The Decline and Fall of the Mighty Culture of NguNbuLe

"At the beginning of your turn erase the last sentence on this card. Indestructible. Action: Target opponent discards a card. Action: Take a Thing from the discard pile in your hand. Action: Destroy target Thing. Action and Thing: Erase target Thing's first sentence."

It's very neat that you can't use this card to erase its own first sentence unless you have a way of playing two Things and one Action in the turn you play it. If you do... it's very powerful. Goldenboots 20:25, 17 October 2008 (BST)

Actually, though, unless you can play two Things and an Action in the turn you play this card - you can't use the last rule to erase anything, ever.Goldenboots 23:49, 17 October 2008 (BST)

Thank you. No, you can't use the last Action normally, this was intended. It's just there to give you the possibility to erase its own first sentence, if you happen to be able to play two Things per turn. (See also: Gravity Cannon.) - Zt, 16:49, 21. October 2008

When me and Grandpa Used to Hunt Dinosaurs

"Everybody may use this Thing's abilities. Action: Destroy target living Thing controlled by opponent. If you do, gain a tooth token. Action: If you control two or more tooth tokens, eliminate a player with no living Things in play."

This may be intended, but after you get your two tooth tokens, you can eliminate players with no living Things until the undead cows come home. Or did you mean, sacrifice two tooth tokens to eliminate the player? Goldenboots 19:57, 21 October 2008 (BST)

I think it's balanced - if you're up against more than one player, it increases the chance that someone will be able to destroy this card, between each of your turns. Besides, everyone gets to use it. --Kevan 20:09, 21 October 2008 (BST)

The Allmighty Flying Frog of Buxtephlog IX

I disagree with the strongest card assessment You do realize the card wins the game not the controller?

Of course. The flavour text is a joke. I usually avoid making straight I win cards. ;) - Zt, 10:17, 29 October 2008 (CET)

If he were really aLmighty, he would know a typo when he saw one.  :) --ChippyYYZ 22:14, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Maybe he did know it, and he saw that it was good! Binarius 23:38, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out, but it wasn't the first and it won't be the last typo by me. I'm no native speaker. So keep on correcting me, please (no irony). - Zt, 12:17, 31 October 2008 (some crazy European country time)

Draw

"If all Things you control are black, win the game. Otherwise the game ends and nobody wins, nobody loses." Since this ends the game, shouldn't it be an Action? Goldenboots 00:56, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely right. Fixed it. - Zt 17:10, 11. November 2008 (CET)

Literature: a Disstory

"Who is the most overrated author ever? Everybody writes down a name secretly. If 2 players chose the same name, both win. If sb. wrote down one of the names below, she gains an irreverence token and draws a card. Hemingway, Twain, Melville, Updike, Sartre, Saramagó, Camus, Dostojevskij, Tolstoj, Roth, Kafka, Goethe, Schiller, Mann, Kundera, the guy who wrote the bible, Cervantes, Dante, Calvino, Shakespeare, Homer."

Shouldn't this be an Action, too? Otherwise, it happens once, and just sits there afterwards. Also, Dostoyevski and Tolstoy aren't spelled with J's in English transliteration, and who's Saramago? Goldenboots 15:25, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it should be an Action. I'm too used to making Things. Tolstoy with "y" look strange, but if that's how you write it in English, OK. Saramago won the noble price for literature. - Zt, 17:42, 12. November 2008 (CET)

Gayness

Really? Do you want to piss off possible gay players? Goldenboots 04:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Gayness in the original meaning of the word: "Happiness". That's why everybody has to smile. And I don't want to piss off gay players, I want to piss of everybody ;) , Zt, 19:28, 14. November 2008 (CET)

In Soviet Russia Card Plays You!

Play in response to an Action. The Action's text is changed till end of turn. All instances of "the" and "a" in the Action's text are removed. Each subject in the sentence becomes an object, each object becomes "you". Dots become exclamation marks.

This is neat. You don't need to say "till end of turn" since Actions go away immediately anyway, and this card doesn't apply to a Thing's action ability. I think it's clearer to say: 'each sentence's object becomes the new subject, and the new object is "you" ' (or maybe "each TRANSITIVE VERB's object..."). Now, who is "you"? It's the person playing the original action, right? Goldenboots 04:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, "you" is the person playing the Action, like in every Action "you" refers to the person playing it. I put the till the end of your turn clause inside, because Action Abilities are Actions as well and I didn't want their test to be changed permanently. - Zt, 19:31, 14. November 2008 (CET)

Skeleton Warmage

Just asking, Why not a copy of Skeleton Warrior, with an ability instead of a token without?

I thought that he would be too hard to get rid of with an Ability that copied himself. He's already got a protection from being removed (discard two cards). The rationale behind the token is that it can be used as an undead token for any effect that says: Destroy an undead you control to do this and that. It won't be useful in every game context, but in some. And then you've still got the protection effect which could be useful in many different game situations. - Zt, 21:04, 03. December 2008 (CET)

Gurg Gnagba, Lord of Stinky Underwear

And what the excrements of cow are we supposed to do if we're playing online?-Bucky 20:05, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Cards by Gimlear

The Pointless Game The Sentence: "This action is called "calling cards". No player may call a card unless it was the last card played." is mostly fluff to describe getting tokens in the next sentence. Please revise to get the card to fit the Card size, as it is you are almost into the next card down. I like the concept though.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gill smoke (talk • contribs).

fixed --Gimlear 03:44, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Gimlear, your card was not removed it got thrown into the archive. Your new card is still a mile long. If you need to use that much text try the longtext tag instead of the text tag. --Gill smoke 18:10, 7 April 2008 (BST)

It's not in the archive because I moved it down before the archive page was made, there are quite a few cards with a lot of text, and I did use the longtext tag. --Gimlear 02:30, 8 April 2008 (BST)

I see Beetle Red didn't make the cut with The Pointless Game --Gill smoke 19:02, 2 June 2008 (BST)

I very much like this card concept. It is still too long to not look awkward, which is a shame since there's no need for it to go on so long. For example, the text fits just fine in this rewording, which has the same effect as far as I can tell. --Tweed Cap 18:53, 10 April 2008 (BST)

The Pointless Game

Thing

Whenever anyone plays a Thing with a color in its title, any other player may say "Beetle <color>" (if the color is not "red") or "Beaver Cleaver" (if the color is "red"); the first to do this gains 1 Pointless token and destroys the Thing. If any player ever has at least 10 Pointless tokens, the player with the most Pointless tokens wins the game.

Card by Gimlear, reworded by Tweed Cap

I think this may be construed to violate the "No Special Rules" guideline, but I can change it just a little to satisfy it. Thanks. --Gimlear 00:39, 11 April 2008 (BST)

Much better. Though I feel compelled to mention that the "As long as this is in play," is still unnecessary. Things that have a continuing effect on gameplay behave like Enchantments in Magic: the Gathering and similar cards in most games' they automatically stop doing whatever is they do when they leave play. If in some Dvorak game you wanted a Thing to continue doing something even after it leaves play, you'd have to explicitly say so. But you shouldn't do that on an Infinite Dvorak card; that's what "no special rules" means. It means that the cards in play and not your memory of cards played in the past tell you everything that's going on. --Tweed Cap 00:55, 11 April 2008 (BST)

Well put Tweed Cap, you comment covers the essence of the game. --Gill smoke 12:18, 11 April 2008 (BST)

Dawn of War

As written, a player gains a morale token whenever he destroys one of his own things. Maybe this was your intention; if not, it should be changed. --Tweed Cap 16:22, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Additionally, care must be taken not to have a recursion here. When a player's Thing gets destroyed, Dawn of War destroys a morale token. But a morale token is a Thing, so if Dawn of War is controlled by someone else, it seems that this player has had a Thing destroyed by another player (using what seems to be the most natural definition of having a thing destroyed by another player, namely destroyed by a card controlled by another player), so he then loses another morale token. And so on until he is eliminated. There are lots of ways to fix this; here are three fixes off the top of my head.

1. Define what it means for a Thing to be destroyed "by a player" more narrowly, so that, for example, it only includes the effects of playing Things, playing Actions, and using Action abilities.
2. Have Dawn of War only apply to non-token Things.
3. Kludge. Do neither of those, but just legislate that losing a morale token doesn't trigger Dawn of War.

This card is long enough already, though, and it's probably safe to leave it to the vote of whoever plays with the card. Still, I for one am interested to know what your intention is. --Tweed Cap 16:34, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks for pointing that out. I fixed it. And, yes, I did intend a player to gain a morale token whenever he destroys one of his own things. --Gimlear 17:40, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Again, in the spirit of not overflowing the box, this is easily fixed here by removing "As long as this card is in play,", which is unnecessary in context. --Tweed Cap 21:47, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Cards by Tweed Cap

If you have a question to ask or an issue to raise about any of my cards, it's worth looking at my user page. There's a good chance it's addressed there. --Tweed Cap 20:20, 11 April 2008 (BST)

Oubliette

It's not clear, what happens to the removed things when Oubliette is destroyed? Do the return to play? Are they destroyed? -Gill smoke 12:10, 11 April 2008 (BST)

They're gone. Removed from game is forever in my book. --Tweed Cap 15:03, 11 April 2008 (BST)

Just asking, why not use the destroy effect? To avoid protection effects? -Gill smoke 13:42, 14 April 2008 (BST)

Not really. Certainly, there are days when I want to take down those darned protected cards (cf. Exploit Strange Vulnerability), but here the point is that the removed cards are gone. They can't be brought back from the discard pile. --Tweed Cap 13:57, 14 April 2008 (BST)

Cards by Anfo

Where did you get the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy bullet points?-Gill smoke 16:02, 8 May 2008 (BST)

Anfo added them to his(?) Cognitive Behavioral Therapy deck, but I thought they were neat so I rewrote three of them a bit and added them to the Infinite Dvorak deck, so I'll try to answer your question. (I didn't credit myself as the one who added them to the deck since the "card by" line was overlong as it is. Maybe I should change it to "Card by Anfo, added by jtwe?) Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by bullet points. The reference I used was the Wikipedia article on cognitive distortion, if that helps. Jtwe 18:34, 8 May 2008 (BST)

The cards I've added from other decks I did just that. Card by XX added by gill. That article is just what I meant. Thanks. I'm going to have to check out Anfo's deck -Gill smoke 17:22, 9 May 2008 (BST)

Mental Filtering

That's twisted, I think that bonus should work the other way. Like: May be played on another whenever they would draw a card you do instead and give them a card from your hand. Maybe with a token to mark the one who draws. As it is I wouldn't play it out of my hand. I'd wait and discard it. -Gill smoke 16:02, 8 May 2008 (BST)

That is how it works. You play it on an opponent, then whenever they would draw, you draw and give them a card. Jtwe 18:34, 8 May 2008 (BST)

I see it's intention now, the way I read it was Play on another when you(one who played the card) would draw, owner(of card) does ... perhaps I read it too quickly -Gill smoke 17:22, 9 May 2008 (BST)

2,000 cards

I noticed, while compiling some stats on the first 2,000 cards (which I'll put on the 1901-2000 talk page soon), that the 1501-1600 page actually only had 90 cards on it. I've corrected this by moving the first ten cards on every successive page to the end of the preceding one. The 2,000th card is now Atticus's "Being Very Sleepy" (which is to say, it always was), and the most recent addition, "Préemption de l'État", makes 2,109. Binarius 09:51, 1 August 2008 (BST)

The stats are up. Check out the 1901-2000 discussion page for all of the details. Binarius 04:16, 3 August 2008 (BST)

Wow, Thanks for the stats. How did you get all the cards together? I copied and pasted the first 1000 once, what a pain in the a$$ that was. Did you import them into Excel for the stats? I would love that file. I have considered printing an entire deck but ... Hey how many cards have Zombie or undead on the card? --Gill smoke 14:27, 5 September 2008 (BST)

Nice work there. I really am terrible for reusing card names. --Kevan 18:22, 4 September 2008 (BST)

Maybe a certain someone should add corner values to their cards--Gill smoke 14:32, 5 September 2008 (BST)

There are 28 cards in the first 2,000 that deal with zombies and the undead in their ruletexts, and 12 more in the next 300. Yeah, I imported them all into Excel, but they only got there via Word and, if you'll believe me, BASIC (I had to write a program to put the attributes in order). Quite labor-intensive. I have the Excel file if you want it, but it's pretty ungainly... Binarius 20:52, 5 September 2008 (BST)

Maybe at the 3000 point if you are still around. I left a link to my email on my user page, just click my name in my signature.--Gill smoke 14:10, 8 September 2008 (BST)

If anyone Java-oriented is interested in this sort of thing, my user page is now a Java class which reads in a text file of Dvorakish cards and spits them out in .csv format. If you have any questions, feel free to ask here or on my user talk page. Jtwe 15:59, 11 September 2008 (BST)

looks like Bucky wants to make the most varied colored cards stat. --Gill smoke 14:10, 8 September 2008 (BST)

Responses and Reactions

...By which I mean any Action allowing the player to "play immediately in response to" some particular occurrence, or any equivalent ability to play out of turn, but only under specific circumstances. Do these cards count toward the following turn's Action limit? Binarius 01:38, 14 August 2008 (BST)

The general rule is if it is ambiguous put it to a vote. I'd vote no because the card played didn't happen on your turn. On the cards I made like that I put the disclaimer in there, "Does not count as your action for you next turn." --Gill smoke 17:28, 26 August 2008 (BST)

If there's no consensus on this issue, then I will venture to suggest that cards played out of turn do not count toward the following turn's limits unless specified, since they explicitly allow you to play them outside of your turn. Comments? Binarius 01:10, 30 August 2008 (BST)

To quote the rules, "You can play one Thing and one Action per turn." You are entitled to one Action per turn, whoever the turn belongs to. On the next player's turn, your Action priveleges return. This would mean that you may not play an Instant (yeah, I play Magic) in the same turn that you play another Action or Instant.
Until Instants get their own section in the rules page, this is what the rules say.--ChippyYYZ 00:57, 11 September 2008 (BST)

Cards by redtoast

Whoa, Hey, What Are We Doin'

I think you mean to swap positions of the draw and discard. As worded it could mean they would be used in the oppisite way; draw from the face up pile and discard (and destroy) to face down pile, that violates the "no special rules" clause. If you intend that, just make it a thing, otherwise you might want to reword for clarity. --Gill smoke 17:44, 29 August 2008 (BST)

Apothecary

Potions don't seem to be worth much if you only need them for an Action ability that lets you play an Action card... Thing, perhaps? Or two Actions? Binarius 23:05, 30 August 2008 (BST)

Apothecary's actions can be played at any time. The potions turn your actions into instants.--ChippyYYZ 02:01, 31 August 2008 (BST)

Oops, of course. Silly me. Binarius 07:35, 31 August 2008 (BST)

Destiny

What incentive would either player have to choose a number lower than ten? It would seem that getting repeatedly shuffled back into the deck is this card's...destiny? Binarius 23:57, 20 September 2008 (BST)

Cards by Binarius

Quinquiplicate

This one seems to violate the "no special rules" rule. Does it wear off at the end of the turn?--ChippyYYZ 00:57, 11 September 2008 (BST)

I envisioned this to involve a permanent alteration of the affected cards' texts (e.g., in pencil), in the same sense as some other cards in the deck, like Speling Erorr (1-100) or Create Sequence (1501-1600). So it would be permanent, but not "invisible". Binarius 08:18, 11 September 2008 (BST)

Pink Is The New Black

No, Black is the new green. Go back to 1701-1800 to see for yourself. I love you card. I think there is a way to change the Title text color somehow, I know it does it for white. Kevan can you help? I was looking a the shade closely for my Undead Purge I wanted an off white, but I kept having to darken the color for readability.--Gill smoke 21:51, 3 October 2008 (BST)

Sorry, missed this. Looking at the source for Template:Card, there's just a kludge that uses black text only if the background colour is pure white (one of several variations on 'fff'). Feel free to add a new variable to specify a text colour, if you know your way around wiki parser functions. --Kevan 17:36, 17 October 2008 (BST)

Hot in Here

"Hand size limit 3. Actions must be played as soon as they are drawn." The card should probably say that this counts for all players. - Zt, 16:03, 17 October 2008 (CET)

I thought that would be understood from the lack of specific reference to the card's controller...? Binarius 21:12, 17 October 2008 (BST)

No One's Head Shall Be Higher Than King's

"No player may control more Things than you do." - what happens if they already have more Things when you play it? --Kevan 20:29, 25 October 2008 (BST)

I guess it's ambiguous whether everybody needs to destroy their Things or you get to play more; the former was my intent. Corrected, thanks! Binarius 21:41, 25 October 2008 (BST)

Only the Silent Survive

As worded, this card prevents Action abilities, and as a result makes most cards completely useless. It's also strongly self-protecting; there are only a few Things that can get rid of other Things without using an Action ability. And you need to get rid of it to win. Playing this card would suck for everyone involved.-Bucky

I agree, and this was very much intended in the spirit of the quote's origin. Not a card I expect would be played very often, but if it is played, it will probably be in every player's best interest to work together to destroy it. Binarius 02:27, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

It isn't an issue of everyone working together to destroy it as much as an issue of dozens of turns passing without meaningful action before someone even draws a way to destroy it.-Bucky 03:45, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I can't think of a single card that destroys or alters a card in play with a thing ability. I have a couple Discard to destroy or remove from the game but they aren't anywhere near this set. The simple and fair edit would be to either prevent action abilities or Action cards from being played, Even with that stipulation they card would most likely to remain in play for quite a while. --Gill smoke 15:55, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, you could get rid of it with an Anvil, one of the sample cards from the game rules. Pretty sure someone slipped that into the Infinite Deck somewhere, for whatever that's worth. --Jtwe 02:11, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I seem to remember there being several "discard to destroy" and "destroy to destroy" Things in the deck. I know I've contributed a few; Homing Missile (#2286) comes to mind. More might be useful, I guess. At any rate, as serious as the card's subject is, I like Gill_smoke's suggestion, and I think restricting Action abilities is an acceptable compromise. Any more objections? By the way, Gill_smoke, what do you mean by "they aren't anywhere near this set"? Binarius 04:43, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Most people who play play with on of the sets of 100 (for example 3501 - 3600) online. When I play locally, I pull out my ever expanding deck of 3 by 5's and add some new ones from the current set. The point being you have to go backwards several hundred cards (thus the proximity statement) to find 'A' removal card. By the way, I added the 4 picture sample cards (they are in the 3500's) at "The T's" suggestion. --Gill smoke 21:11, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Welcome additions, too, I remember those. Ah yes, 100-card subsets...for some reason, that idea seems less and less satisfying to me with every new hundred cards we archive. On that note, I reiterate my resolve to play a game of Infinite using the entire deck someday! Anyway, if we're restricting ourselves to 100 cards at a time, there's still always F-35 Lightning (#4697), which I forgot about before. Just the same, your point is well taken. Binarius 09:43, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I make a point of occasionally (~once per 50 cards I make) producing a Thing that deals with other Things without using an Action. One of them (Soft Ban) happens to be on the same page as Only the Silent Survive. However, that doesn't mean one of them will show up in anything resembling a timely manner.-Bucky 16:16, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Re: 100 card subsets, Kevan has promised to one day to write a script to allow a random subset of 100 cards be generated with the MUSH, hasn't happened yet. On another note adding images isn't that hard just time consuming. I add it to flags. --Gill smoke 00:20, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Bottler's Spirit

Genius. I wish I thought of it. --Gill smoke 21:11, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

only eskimoboy and I can see the moon's master plan

Sorry to burst your bubble, but he already added it. It's number #4405.--ChippyYYZ 18:55, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

=O No wonder it seemed like such a good idea...! Removed. Binarius 07:31, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Sharks With Lasers

Shouldn't that be "Sharks With Freakin Lasers" --Gill smoke 13:34, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

If memory serves, it should be "Sharks With Freakin' Laser Beams Attached to Their Heads", but in the interest of brevity I hoped that evoking the image would be enough. Binarius 18:49, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Rest

I don't know why I never noticed that there were no blank actions. Thank you. --Gill smoke 13:23, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

LackeyCCG port...

...is not going to be possible. I just tried it, and Lackey doesn't let you have more than 300 cards in a deck. Even then, I found a workaround. When I put 600 cards into a deck and loaded it, it showed 599 cards in the deck, "-1" in the discard, and a gray card in the deck that crashed the program when I dragged it.

Anyone have any other ideas for how to play this deck online?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by The T (talk • contribs) 16:50, 11 September 2008.

I doubt you're going to get through more than 300 cards in a single game. If you did, and if it was really important to keep playing, you could abandon the game, make a fresh, random deck that also included the cards that were in play (and in hands) at the end of the last game, and start with those in play.

Which might be slightly easier through DvorakMUSH, although I forget how dynamic the engine is - you could just delete all the cards in the discard pile and add an equal amount of new random cards to the draw pile, provided you didn't mind breaking the odd discard-pile-digging card. --Kevan 18:58, 11 September 2008 (BST)

• nod* Actually, I rolled it over in my head and thought of another idea basically like that. Just make a random list of 100 cards, add each one individually, and play a game with it. If you do run out of cards, I have to test if this is possible but: If Lackey will let you load a deck in the middle of the game without removing everything, then you could read the next 100 cards on your random list of all cards and add them to another deck to add. So I'm going to get back to doing this--for some reason I had the crazy idea of making template cards for each color card, just to add some more flavor to the game. I'd be glad to upload it when I'm done if people are interested, and try to maintain it when I can. The T 19:24, 11 September 2008 (BST)

Cards by NARF

ALL YOUR BASE

"Action - Reaction" Reaction to what? "Take one card from the opponents discard pile." There's only one discard pile by default.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gill smoke (talk • contribs) 17:30, 18 September 2008.

Is this better?--NARF 13:06, 22 September 2008 (BST)

Yep --Gill smoke 21:04, 25 September 2008 (BST)

Clean Slate

Do you discard your hand, or does everybody? Or is "redraw hand" meant to imply that everyone else must discard their hands first too? Binarius 23:45, 18 September 2008 (BST)

Is this better?--NARF 13:06, 22 September 2008 (BST)

Deadly Switch

"When deck runs out, switch again" is redundant because this is already built into the Basic Rules. Also, please note that this type of conditional mechanic on an Action card violates the Infinite deck's "No special rules" rule. Binarius 23:24, 18 September 2008 (BST)

Is this better? --NARF 22:18, 19 September 2008 (BST)

That works great. Just be careful to phrase Actions so that their effects happen "instantaneously" and you don't need to remember what they said after they've been buried in the discard pile. Incidentally, the three cards you just added (No Corner For YOU!, Action Lock, and Thing Lock) all have the same problem. Cards that say things like "for the next five turns" or "for the rest of the game" should be done as Things. Binarius 23:55, 19 September 2008 (BST)

Is this better?--NARF 13:06, 22 September 2008 (BST)

Yep. And welcome to the party. --Gill smoke 21:07, 25 September 2008 (BST)

Election

"All players choose someone at the table to vote for (They may not vote for themselves). That player may choose if each player can draw a card next turn."

Does "that player" mean the person receiving the most votes? What about ties? Goldenboots 14:50, 16 October 2008 (BST)

SUDDEN CAPS LOCK

Does it bother anyone else that this card says, in effect, "Remove target player from the game"?--ChippyYYZ 23:54, 20 May 2009 (BST)

Yes. Even though it really reads "Target player can't play cards" (they can still use Action abilities.)-Bucky 20:02, 21 May 2009 (BST)

Or discard a card for effect --Gill smoke 15:03, 26 May 2009 (BST)

Although there are a few cards that they can still play... Hmm... We need more cards with loads of capital letters in the title. ——— Nehh

I checked, there are about 2 per page that can be played this way, it's not THAT rare to get cards under its' rules. --NARF 17:43, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

My newer cards

I can't help but feel I messed up a little bit with the wording on these. Could people please state if these cards are understandable, or should I rewrite them? --NARF 01:05, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Wartime Holds No Rules

I'm not sure if you've worded this card correctly. Since it effectively says "Things' Action abilities don't count towards their controllers' per-turn limit.", this means you can use every Action ability of each Thing you control an infinite number of times in one turn. Is this what you really intended? -- Corrigan 13:27, December 27 2010 (PST)

Is it okay now? --NARF 03:16, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

The main problem with this card is that it allows the abilities to be used infinitely and repeatedly, not that it allows each Thing to use all of its Action abilities in one turn. Allowing a Thing to use multiple different Action abilities in one turn should actually be kept on the card; that way, the card is powerful without being insanely broken. It should include something like "Each Action ability can't be used more than once in a turn". PS: Writing on a card that it can't be destroyed even by cards which claim to be able to destroy indestructible Things (and to the best of my knowledge, hardly any such cards exist) is somewhat excessive and unnecessary. It's fine for this card to be indestructible, but the attempt to make it "super indestructible" isn't worth the card space. -- Corrigan 19:39, 11 January 2011 (PST)

"each Thing may use one Action ability on it without using up the owner's action turn" means that each thing can only use anything once each turn, not one ability infinitely.

Well, I did some extreme editing to deal with the readability problem. It's no longer ridiculoustructible, and it uses a token system to prevent screwing around(although now one can use a token remover to use abilities infinitely :/ ) but it works. I had to use the word sacrifice because otherwise it'd run off the card. --NARF 13:15, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Much better. But (and this has always bugged me), I think that we should make the distinction that tokens are Things in their own right which vanish when they leave play, while counters are put on Things to keep track of certain properties. People seem to use these terms interchangeably. -- Corrigan 19:46, 12 January, (PST)

I'm pretty sure that only the term 'token' is defined, in the 'Tokens Exists' section. Counters are special Tokens according to the rules. --Gill smoke 20:30, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, the way I understood it, counters and tokens are different; something that destroyed a Token couldn't remove a counter from a card, for instance. I wouldn't be against adding a definition for counter to the page. --Jtwe 02:02, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

The Internet

This seems like a rule 3 violation to me; how many censorship cards do you expect to come up? Luigi-Wan Kenobi 18:27, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Mass Duplication and Rule Edit Proposal

In Goldenboots's most recent edits, the entire header and Special Rules sections and a few dozen cards were duplicated. I believe I have corrected this, retaining all of the old cards and including the two that redtoast contributed, but the Recent Changes page seems to think that I've missed a few hundred bytes, and I'm sure it couldn't hurt for someone to check my work.

This most likely would not have happened if the edits in question had been done to the Card List section instead of the entire page. To address this, I would like to propose the following changes to the "rules for adding cards" section at the top of the page:

• Don't add more than three cards at a time; give someone else a chance to add some, before you add any more.
• Use the Edit link to the right of the Card List header to add cards instead of the edit tab at the top of the page, and make sure you put your cards at the bottom of the page.

Comments? Binarius 06:14, 26 September 2008 (BST)

It's the first time this has happened in the year and a half this deck's been going; I don't think we need to give new visitors the mental load of an extra and puzzlingly oblique instruction. --Kevan 13:40, 26 September 2008 (BST)

oops - sorry Goldenboots 01:27, 27 September 2008 (BST)

Random Idea: Add the 4 cards from the Game Rules

I thought it would be interesting to add them, but couldn't decide how best to do it. I originally wanted to just divide them into 4 cards like on the side bar. But 1. They don't really line up properly even if we resize them, and 2. They can't be added to the spoiler that way. Should I just edit out the art only, and make the cards with the art in them? Should we just have them be artless? Is this is a stupid idea to begin with? =O The T 18:40, 3 October 2008 (BST)

I think they have already been added once. The zombie attack card inspired the zombie token madness I have. --Gill smoke 21:50, 3 October 2008 (BST)

I checked, and they aren't there... The T 07:12, 4 October 2008 (BST)

Go ahead and add them. I'd say go artless but if you want to take the time to add the picture into the card the card template tag you want to use is "|image= ", I think there are some examples in the archive, I remember seeing one with a banner ad on it. --Gill smoke 02:34, 6 October 2008 (BST)

I got this. I'm doing it in two parts to follow the update rule. The images are not the right size and the PNG of the cement mixer looks bad. I tried to fix it and failed. --Gill smoke 13:48, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Cards by Game and Watch Kirby

"Oh no you don't!"-There are two ways to interpret this; as a "play in response to..." card or as an illicit special rule creator. Needs clarifying.-Bucky 00:58, 30 March 2009 (BST)

Cards by Goldenboots

Secured Lockbox

"If Secured Lockbox is destroyed by a player other than its owner, both the destroyer and the owner win the game. If Secured Lockbox is destroyed by its owner, the owner is eliminated. Secured Lockbox cannot be destroyed." - am I missing something, or can the first two conditions never be met? --Kevan 16:58, 11 October 2008 (BST)

I'm assuming you need a) one of those cards that says "Destroy target thing, even if it can't be destroyed" (to which the typical response is a thing that says "This thing cannot be destroyed, at all, even by that other card", ad infinitum), or b) something to edit the text of the card (change the "cannot" in the last sentence to "bagel" or something). Jtwe 17:26, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Yes, I was thinking of someone winning by changing the text of Secured Lockbox. I do think a card that says it can destroy even non-destroyable cards would also work, because that is more specific. I want to mention that the old (2000-2007) Rules covered conflict much more clearly than the new ones do - or am I missing something? Goldenboots 03:03, 12 October 2008 (BST)

The Sacred Writings of (your name here) Are Inviolate!

Nice card. I like "change a card's text"-cards. There won't be much use for it though, or am I wrong?- Zt, 16:58, 28 October 2008, 16:59 (CET)

Maybe not. If you had the Decline and Fall of Ng... card in your hand you could "protect" it from self-erasure by setting this card up first. Or if you had a slow guaranteed win you might want to protect a key card. Goldenboots 05:12, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Junk DNA

I understand your intention but I think your "junk" class of tokens is a little vague and can change quickly. In this hundred there are no tokens types that qualify. in other sets there are cards that just make money tokens then a new thing could then destroy money token to perform an action. when the modifying thing got destroyed then what? What if I have tokens without a maker say from an action? --Gill smoke 15:59, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

"A 'junk' token type is a token type where no current rule names the token type for a purpose other than creation. " I don't think it's vague. If there's a card IN PLAY that has a use for the tokens, they're not junk. If there's a card in play that only creates the token, it's junk - there are such cards. If the token has survived past its use, because the card that created it is gone and now no card refers to it, then it's junk. Yes, which tokens are junk can change quickly - since many cards refer to Money tokens (and a few to Energy or Gold tokens) a token could go from junk to not-junk as such cards appear, or go from not-junk to junk as cards which use them disappear or are altered. Anyway, the test of junk is: is there a card in play right now which does anything to this type of token -by name - except create them? If no, it's junk. Goldenboots 21:07, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Here are some currently visible cards that would create junk tokens:

David Blaine: Action: Put a thing into your hand and replace it with a thing from your hand. Action: Replace a word on a thing with "Ace of Clubs". Action: Give an Ace of Clubs Token to a player.

Chinese Bakery Entrapment: Play under the control of another player. The controller of this card may not use any action abilities other than the one on this card. Action: Create 10 fortune cookie tokens.

Zombie: Your hand size is reduced by one Action: Destroy living thing, create Zombie token in its place.

Refried Beans: Whenever you would draw a card, you may choose to draw from the top of the discard pile; if you do, gain a Flatulence token.

Token Clock: When this comes into play, put eight Sand tokens into play. If no tokens of any type are in play, you win the game. Action: Destroy a token.

Bruce: While this card is in play, the title of all non-token Things in play is 'Bruce', and all tokens are Bruce tokens instead of their normal type. Action: Put a Bruce token into play

John Stuart Mill: If the total number of Tokens ever decreases, the Action below automatically triggers (under your control). Action: Add 5 Utilitarian Tokens to the game and redistribute the ownership of Tokens as ordered by you, but so that nobody's total number of Tokens goes down.

Baker: Action: Put a dozen Food tokens into play.

None of these cards make these tokens do anything but sit there and be tokens. It's unlikely another card will come along and do something with, say, fortune cookie tokens. Goldenboots 21:24, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I actually have a bunch of food sacrifice cards in my backlog, and as Bucky is always reminding me the deck is infinite. I know I'm being a little picky but look Bruce is a good example of changing rules I mentioned. All tokens get changed When Bruce is in play, that is not only at creation. My fortune cookies are now Bruces. My opponent's Bruce tokens are just a Bruce and are not modified. The Bruce card goes away and I'm left with 10 fortune cookies. I win, wait it's supposed to be different types. As I said I get the intention, I'm not sure how to change the class of tokens to better reflect what you want. --Gill smoke 15:59, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

When Bruce is in play, no-one could win with Junk DNA, because there would only be one token type, Bruce tokens. If Bruce went out of play (see discussion under "Bruce") all tokens would revert to their old names, and any remaining Bruce tokens, made with Bruce's action ability, would be a junk token type. I'm happy with the idea that what is a junk token type varies from play to play. Yes, having ten fortune cookie tokens that are a junk type doesn't win you the game via Junk DNA. I don't think a food sacrifice card which said, for example, "Sacrifice four tokens that are food to make an opponent discard a card" would prevent fortune cookie tokens, soup tokens, etc, from being a junk type. The Junk DNA definition says the token type has to be named for a purpose other that creation - a general card like my example doesn't name the type, fortune cookie tokens.

Recursive Suicide Pact

"No Reactions may be played" looks suspiciously like a backdoor secret rule.-Bucky 20:09, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

OK, I'm changing it to "No reactions may be played TO R.S.P". In any case, RSP will normally end the game with everyone eliminated, the exception being when somebody has an escape card against elimination. I think I'm right that if I drew R.S.P. I would play it and expect to win, unless those darn escape cards rescued someone else. Goldenboots 05:26, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

I would not expect you to win. You would eventually end up on the wrong end of the Pact yourself. -Bucky 16:38, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

And yet I am quietly confident. The trick is to name yourself. Goldenboots 01:34, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I see a couple of reactions to being eliminated (not to RSP) about 20 cards up that could be handy in eliminating yourself. Just a thought.--ChippyYYZ 02:21, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

If you name yourself, you get eliminated. Just because you get eliminated last doesn't make you any less eliminated.-Bucky 04:59, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Chippy: I think I made those. You may be right, they aren't played in response to RSP but to elimination. That's fine. Bucky: If everyone else is eliminated, for one shining second I'm alone in the game - don't I win? Then, yes, I'm eliminated.

There's no rule that says you win if everyone else is eliminated; it's just implied. But there are a few other cards, such as Get Out Of Jail Free (page 2) and more importantly On Vacation(page 4) that imply that winning by eliminating everyone else is not immediate.-Bucky 19:03, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I would argue that, while winning is not "automatic" when everyone else is eliminated, under normal circumstances it's what will happen. In that "one shining second", you can propose rule changes freely and pass them by unanimous vote. ----

You Win if...

You know nobody plays with the full deck. The probability is near 0 now. Even the "at least 17 money tokens" would be hard in actual play with most decks. With a couple of create a copy from the archive the card gets easier to use for the win. I like it. --Gill smoke 14:14, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Fishing Rod

The Action ability can be used to draw as many cards as you want, as long as there isn't a fish in play. Is that intentional?-Bucky 22:12, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Nope, it's the same sort of thing I keep pointing out on OTHER people's cards. Good spot - fixed. Goldenboots 03:23, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, Binarius already beat you to it. Check the Unplayable Dvorak Deck.--ChippyYYZ 03:30, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Wiki Edit

It seems adding the phrase "This card is uneditable." would render the reversion reaction useless. Not intentional, I suppose?--ChippyYYZ 04:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Nice idea. The two cards (Wiki Edit and the edited card - which cannot easily be Wiki Edit, since WE only edits opponent cards) would be in conflict. I'm adding language to rule this out, because avoiding card conflict is a good thing. However, I would think the reversion would be more powerful than the new text on the edited card, only there because of Wiki Edit in the first place. Goldenboots 23:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Cards by Object Replacement Char

BOOM Gun

If the card is face down the rules text is assumed to be blank logically there is nothing to return it to face up.

I reject your reality and substitute my own=

What is this card supposed to do? I think your are supposed to replace the things you have in play with things from the deck but the wording could make it more clear.

Unofficial IRC Channel

irc://irc.freenode.net/dvorakgame

I should be there. I'm assuming you all know how IRC works. If not, it's basically a way to send text over the internet. If you want to use it, you need a client, such as:

• Chatzilla, a Firefox addon
• XChat, for Linux and Windows
• MIRC, for Windows
• IRC at Work, web-based CGI client

For more help go to http://irchelp.org/. --Pongo 10:32, 25 October 2008 (BST)

I've registered the channel, I hope Kevan doesn't mind. --Pongo 15:07, 25 October 2008 (BST)

I mean, I probably should have technically used ##dvorakgame as it is "unofficial". --Pongo 15:13, 25 October 2008 (BST)

I'm happy to make it official if people are using it. Don't forget that we already have a MUSH where you can actually play the game, though. --Kevan 16:35, 25 October 2008 (BST)

Of course. --Pongo 16:44, 25 October 2008 (BST)

Okay, seeing as nobody's interested, I've dropped the channel. --Pongo 09:28, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Archiving this Page?

It does seem to be getting rather long. --Pongo 16:29, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah but where to start? we need to distill some meaning from the page before making a new one. that and the open issues need to carry forward. --Gill smoke 15:37, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps splitting the page somehow into a "Cards by" page and a page for things that aren't specific to individual cards? Binarius 20:13, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm thinking the "Cards By" sections could just be moved to the users' talk pages. That would simplify matters a bit.--ChippyYYZ 04:30, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Czech Diacritics Question

I wanted to make a card called Antonin Dvorak, but spelled as in the name of the Czech composer Antonin Dvorak - there's a long-sign (like an acute accent) over one of the i's and an a, and there's a hacek (little v-shaped sign) over the r. Can anyone tell me how to type these in wiki? Goldenboots 04:34, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, you can use the HTML character entity references, like &Iacute; for Í or &aacute; for á, or you could just copy and paste an ř from somewhere like the Windows character map. I don't know how well any of this will export, but it displays fine on the page, at least for me. Jtwe 21:15, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I copied yours. Goldenboots 01:10, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Cards by Maeglin Dubh

Comments/Suggestions?

Three issues with "Drone". First, it doesn't say what to do with the Building once you find it. And second, if we're preserving the illusion of an infinite draw pile, a simple "Search the draw pile" won't work, or may take an unreasonable amount of time. Infinite Dvorak Deck search cards usually do something like "search the top N cards of the draw pile". Finally, whenever the draw pile gets searched, it should also get shuffled to avoid card counting.-Bucky 17:06, 27 May 2009 (BST)

Is better? - Maeglin

Mostly. But there's a new problem. Far fewer than one in 20 cards are Buildings. The current wording will do nothing a lot of the time.-Bucky

What would be a good number? -Maeglin

Looking through the last two complete pages of the archive (3801-4000), I see a total of 5 buildings. So you need to see more than 40 cards to even have a 50-50 chance of finding one. Perhaps you could use the "Make a copy of a Thing named XXX from the Infinite Dvorak Deck archive and put it into play." mechanic, perhaps making the card it morphs into yourself (See the Home Base/MechFab series on page 19). You could even let the player pick any building from the archives (which would, ironically, let you grab the aforementioned Home Base every time)-Bucky 05:06, 28 May 2009 (BST)

How does this look? Trying to keep the Zerg theme going, but it might be too self-referential. Hopefully the 'create-a-copy' mechanic will help circumvent that. - Maeglin

Remove the "To play this thing, you must first destroy a card named Hatchery" bit; otherwise, someone who draws Lair/Hive from the draw pile can't play it. Also, what does "Tap-Action" mean?-Bucky 17:14, 28 May 2009 (BST)

Words removed. Tap-Action means to do this action, turn the card on its side, putting it in an 'exhausted' or 'tapped' state. Tapped cards become untapped at the end of the round/turn, whichever makes more sense. - Maeglin

What's the point? You can usually only take one Action per turn anyway.

That's true... I remember seeing the mechanic somewhere on this site. I know I'm going to use it in whatever set I make, but I guess adding the text "use this action only once per turn" does the same thing. I've played some card games before (specifically Versus system) so some terminology dies hard.

From the Team Fortress CCG Deck...

Tap - The card is placed sideways and is ineligible for further actions until untapped. Tapped cards may be "untapped" at the beginning of the player's next turn, unless another card or ability states otherwise. Tap+Action - Whenever a card has "Tap+Action:" written, its ability will count as your Action for the turn, as well as require the card to be tapped in order to perform.

Also, I'd assume that an "Action+Thing" is equivalent to a "Full-Round Action"?

The tap rule is a deck-specific Special Rule. It doesn't affect cards in the Infinite deck. And yes, "Action+Thing:" means "Instead of playing an Action and a Thing"-Bucky

Cards by Nehh

Hidden Stash

Hidden Stash appears to violate the 'no special rules' rule. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bucky (talk • contribs).

I see what Bucky is saying and the easy fix is to just make it a thing. You wouldn't have to change another word (or color) on the card. The 'no special rules' rule means in effect that Actions cannot have effects that last beyond your turn. --Gill smoke 18:32, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Fixed.

This is too complicated...

I'm guessing this is yours from the flavor text.
There was a discussion earlier on the this page. Technically you are usually allowed only one Action play per turn so unless there is another effect that lets you play more actions per turn, "This is too complicated..." is unplayable. How I get around it on my Reaction cards is by adding a discard mechanic. Like "Discard in response to an action that was played (or discarded) in response to an action. ... When played as an action this card does something else." and by the way I had nothing to do with this card, except meddle with other peoples actions. --Gill smoke 13:07, 23 June 2009 (BST)

Stuff-in-a-can

Glossary - cards moving from a hand to the discard pile are "discarded" rather than "destroyed". It's important to keep this consistent since some cards (like the stuff-in-a-cans) do stuff when destroyed but not when discarded. In fact, the glossary even says that "A Thing that's still in someone's hand can't be destroyed"-Bucky 18:56, 27 June 2009 (BST)

Multicard

So is this and my sleeping giant like gonna start some crazy card flipping mechanic? Cause I can roll with that if you want. AldusValor 20:22, 29 June 2009 (BST)

Card Flip

By turn did you mean flipped over? --Gill smoke 14:46, 30 June 2009 (BST) Uh huh. --Nehh, 06:33 GMT

Inappropriate Baseball Project

Just saying, wouldn't this work better flavor wise if you gave the player whose thing you destroyed a baseball token? --Gill smoke 16:49, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Burning Hands

How would I ever Draw a card? Without an action ability to remove/destroy a thing in play this card becomes "Take turns discarding the deck, repeat as necessary." A very real possibility at most stages of the game. --Gill smoke 16:45, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Major clarifications required here. "A player" means a player of your choice, or just Anybody? "A card"? you mean a Specific card, right? And how long does it last? Forever, end of your turn, or just the instant in which you use it?--ChippyYYZ 18:35, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Eight Rule

This needs quotation marks around the second "_______". Otherwise its a win in 2 turns, by first changing the blank to "text of this card", then using the Action ability again to make Eight Rule read "You win the game at the end of each turn".-Bucky 17:06, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Bag of Endless Water

Don't you mean decanter of endless water? ;) --Gill smoke 17:23, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Nope. This is a bag. Made of canvas. It always leaks.

I was referring to the classic D&D magic item [1] no party I was ever in had. --Gill smoke 13:52, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Clone Fodder

You might want to either change the abilities to both Things or both Actions to limit the speed of this powerful card. And I'm just saying, making a thing have the rulestext of an action is usually really bad idea. You might want to change it to just "Things". --Gill smoke 17:23, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Fire Elemental

"Place 1 Flame token on a card": one of Fire Elemental's original 10 tokens, or do you get to create a new one? Binarius 09:46, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

You might also want to add something like "Can't be destroyed by fire-based effects". Currently, Flamethrower and Pyromancy actually make it less hot.--ChippyYYZ 14:53, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. Makes more sense now. Note that extinguishing it kills it very effectively.

Breaking the Limit of Maths

The number given is ambiguous; do you mean 10^(10^(10^32)), (10^10)^(10^32), ((10^10)^10)^32)? There is a rather large difference between these interpretations.-Bucky 20:32, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Unlike addition and multiplication, exponentiation is not associative. Nested exponents are evaluated beginning with the highest power, so 10^10^10^32 = 10^(10^(10^32)). Binarius 23:36, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I think the parenthesis go the other way ((10^10)^10)^32 Where did you get the rule for exponents starting with the highest order? I remember it left to right, also if I remember right you can multiply the nested exponents to get 10 to the 3200 see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponents_%28Math%29#Generalizations --Gill smoke 14:36, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Nested exponents can be multiplied if parentheses are involved, as in the example you cite: (a^b)^c = a^(b*c), so 10^3200 can be written as ((10^10)^10)^32, although simply writing 10^3200, or even 10^(10*10*32), would of course be more concise. As another example, (2^3)^4 = 8^4 = 2^(3*4) = 4096. But without parentheses, 2^3^4 = 2^(3^4) = 2^81 = 2417851639229258349412352. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetration#Iterated_powers or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations#Special_cases. Any math textbook that addresses the question will say the same thing.

The advantage of this notation is that when using variables - as is most often the case with the people who use this notation the most - writing a^b^c^d in an ascending diagonal line (so that d is c's exponent, c^d is b's exponent, and b^c^d is a's exponent) means something different than a^(bcd), where a's exponent is the product of the other three. Binarius 22:18, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Sharing Is Caring

In a four player game, one player gets to steal the other players' copies of Sharing is Caring and then everything else next turn. I'm assuming this isn't the intended use of this card?-Bucky 18:36, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Unlimited Thing Works

Unlimited is right. My turn, I play Unlimited Thing Works and immediately use its ability to create two copies of ITSELF. I then use the copies' abilities to produce four more. A short time later, I control an arbitrarily large number of every Thing in play or in the discard pile. Unless this was the desired effect, I would change it either to trigger at a specific time, such as the beginning of your turn, or to exempt itself from being copied. Maybe both.--ChippyYYZ 14:14, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Cards By ChippyYYZ

To counter the immense and ever-increasing size of this page, this section has been moved to my talk page.--ChippyYYZ 15:16, 3 June 2009 (BST)

The Black Market

What is the meaning of "X" on this card roll Xd6 and draw X cards, I think you mean X to be the number of money tokens you control. You might want to edit this for brevity. --Gill smoke 11:41, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Dvorak

I just saw that on the front page an considered adding it. You already had. --Gill smoke 16:57, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Intense Focus

the "destroy this" clause leads to the backdoor special rules we are always trying to avoid. --Gill smoke 03:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

How's that? The way I read it, you can still play cards. But if you do, Intense Focus is destroyed, and then its effects stop. Binarius 06:53, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

"If you play a card destroy this. Discard your hand at the end of your turn. Draw four extra cards each turn." The Discard and Draw effects seem to me to happen after the card is destroyed. Maybe it is just the sentence order. --Gill smoke 12:50, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Cards by AldusValor

Welcome to the party, don't let my comments keep you from making more. More cards is more fun. Subtypes don't really matter, Authors add Reaction to Action cards to show it is to be played during someone elses' turn, and Subtype their Things for clarity or inclusion.

And Finally, although this is probably the first part read, Thanks for the warm welcome. The first three cards were modified slightly from my Legend of Elsewhere deck, which I'm hoping to complete, Elsewhere is a very long epic story that I have been playing around with in my head for years and am finally putting pen to paper on. Once I get some typed, I'll post a link on my user page. I'll be around for a while, so be prepared. Aldus Valor 22:40 17 June 2009 (EST)

Doublechin's Decree

This action does not complete on your turn and is sort of a "Special Rule" in that I cannot look at the cards in play and determine the state of the game. To mimic the result make it a thing and use a depleting token mechanic, and destroy the card when there are no more tokens on the card.--Gill smoke 17:48, 16 June 2009 (BST)

It does make a little more sense that way. Fixed. Aldus Valor 22:20 17 June 2009 (EST)

Doublechin

"Action" means instead of playing an action card you may do the following. You have a comes into play effect there, Did you mean the action effect is only playable the turn you play Doublechin? Another issue there is only one discard pile for all players. You should edit this card for clarity. --Gill smoke 17:48, 16 June 2009 (BST)

Yes the effect was meant to happen only once. As for the "Owner's Discard Pile." I have MTG on the brain. Fixed. Edited. Aldus Valor 22:22 17 June 2009 (EST)

The Mouth of Vecna

"As log as this card is in play," I think you meant "long", as a mechanic, did you mean for The Mouth of Vecna to go away once it eliminated a player? because I could see a rules discussion ending the game quickly, and what happens when played online, how do you know I spoke? --Gill smoke 17:48, 16 June 2009 (BST)

"The next player who speaks" only works once, or was that the intended effect? And there is a MUSH command to "speak", though typing the following
"nothing", but holds up two fingers, indicating the number two.
would cause everyone to see
ChippyYYZ says "nothing", but holds up two fingers, indicating the number two."
You may wish to edit the card for clarity on these two points.--ChippyYYZ 00:52, 17 June 2009 (BST)

As for the "log" I share a computer with someone who hates to lose at online monopoly, and the keyboard takes the brunt of the anger, and sometimes the keys don't register. I have a hard time logging into Urban Dead as a result.

As for the card mechanic, it means that until someone makes it go away, anyone who speaks loses the game. So I'll amend the card to reflect that. "Any player who speaks..." Edited. Fixed.Aldus Valor 22:26 17 June 2009 (EST)

David Bowie

"Action:David Bowie may become an exact copy of anything in play." once you use the action how would it become David Bowie again. Perhaps if you made it, "Action:David Bowie may become an exact copy of anything in play until the beginning of you next turn." I would also move the win condition to before the action ability to make it clear that the action was not require to fulfill the win condition. --Gill smoke 17:48, 16 June 2009 (BST)

You mean "Until you control At Least three things", right?--ChippyYYZ 00:52, 17 June 2009 (BST)

Good, better, and yes. Changed, Moved, Edited. Aldus Valor 22:29 17 June 2009 (EST)

Arramore

"... all things all things target opponant controls" all things is in there twice and opponent is misspelled, which might be intentional. --Gill smoke 21:49, 18 June 2009 (BST)

Mordok, The Shapeshifter

Severe terminology issues. When you say "choose a discard one thing in play" do you mean "discard a Thing from your hand", "destroy a Thing" or "destroy a Thing you control"? (also, note that destroying one of your opponent's Things each turn is well above the 'fair play' power level the deck's settled on)-Bucky 05:24, 30 June 2009 (BST)

Well this card take one thing in play and sends it to the discard pile, that can be anything in play. As for it destroying one monster each turn, it doesn't It would be every other turn. It would behave like this.

Player 1's turn, he plays Mordok
Player 2 plays David Bowie
At the beginning of Player 1's turn, he destroys David Bowie and copies it onto the other side.
Player 2 takes his turn
Player 1's David Bowie copy would turn back into Mordok at the beginning of his turn, and would remain until the next turn.

If Mordok is the only thing left in play it would become a copy of itself. AldusValor 07:01, 30 June 2009 (BST)

(a)If you meant 'destroy', please edit the card to say so. As per the Glossary, 'discard' refers to Things in players' hands.
(b)If Mordok is the only Thing in play, he destroys himself end ends up face-down in the discard pile. Then stays flipped because his 'flip me back' text is no longer in effect (he isn't in play).-Bucky 17:51, 30 June 2009 (BST)

Addendum:Even ignoring the shapeshifting bit, the 'destroy a Thing each turn' ability is rather obnoxious.-Bucky 17:53, 30 June 2009 (BST)

Xerox, the Copycat Giant

Just saying, normally you get one action per turn since I become a copy of what I destroyed until the end of (my) turn when I use an action. How would I normally use my new copied abilities? Double Chin would not be pleased. --Gill smoke 14:43, 30 June 2009 (BST)

Cards by Dcty2

These cards were added to a page of the archives rather than the main deck. I have moved them here.

Shiftswap

Action

All Actions turn into things and vice versa. Note: This card will be unchanged.

Card by Dcty2

When Mobile Phones Rule The Earth

Action

Every two Things you have, draw two cards.

Card by Dcty2

Immortal -- To Things, That Is

Thing

You are immune to Things for one turn, which is the turn after this one.

Psycho Dude

Thing

You can control one of your opponent's cards.

Card by Dcty2

Who Ate My Carrots

Action

One of your opponent's cards are considered useless and cannot be used.

Card by Dcty2

Of these cards, only "When Mobile Phones Rule The Earth" actually works (it's also overpowered). Of the others, "Psycho Dude", "Who Ate My Carrots" and "Immortal to Things" are so vague as to be useless. As for "Shiftswap", the vast majority of Things' texts dont make sense on an Action and vice versa.

Cards by Velicue

Welcome to Dvorak! It's good to see a new contributor. While your first cards are mostly fine, there are some ambiguities which could be fixed by clearer and more regular wording. First, for "The Time of Harvesting", it's not specified what the cards are chosen for. Presumably, each player chooses one and puts it into his hand, but the card should state this. In "The Beauty", it's unclear what it means to be "ordered" to destroy a Thing. Ordered by cards or by players? Is it meant to be used with cards that say "destroy X tokens/Things you control to do something"? Also, it should be noted that, in Dvorak, "discard" always means "from your hand". I hope that my comments don't sound too harsh. My first cards were probably ten times worse than yours. -- Corrigan 20:16 January 12, 2011

Cards by Ltn Koen

One With The Rubbish: this appears to break the game when your hand size hits 6; you need to discard down to your hand size limit, but the cards you discard end up back in your hand. -Bucky 05:08, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

I should probably just add "You don't need to discard at the end of your turn." The idea is that you're playing with the discard pile instead of your hand, so very soon you're have much more than five cards. Ltn Koen 10:45, 9 February 2013 (UTC)