Talk:Infinite Dvorak deck/Archived Talk

(old content from the main talk page)

Cards by Bucky

[Hex:] It certainly has odd synergies with Magnitude Error. :D Zaratustra 19:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Aw. Zaratustra 20:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The problem was that it applied to itself. Its actual base could not be determined, since it claimed it was some base other than "10".-Bucky 20:26, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad to see your new Cards, are the corner values meant for collectors? -Gill smoke 20:03, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

There's no point in collecting when you can just print out any card you want. I put in the cornervalues because some of the earlier cards deal with cornervalues in letter-number format, which there haven't been many of lately.-Bucky 00:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

So are you going to make some new corner value manipulators?-Gill smoke 19:49, 14 April 2008 (BST)

What's with the "chained" cards, the ones that make a copy of an another card? Are you trying to nomicly get around the infinite nature of the deck? If this card exists then these supporting ones do too. It's a clever tactic. -Gill smoke 19:49, 14 April 2008 (BST)

I started by making tokens with text. Then I realized I'd run out of card space for anything complex, so I settled on using Things that make specific non-token Things. Also note that any card in the main five-card cycle will eventually let you fetch the other four.-Bucky 20:14, 14 April 2008 (BST)

Land of the Immortals

Is there any way at all to destroy Land of the Immortals? It is a Thing, and thus can't be destroyed while it is in play. It would seem that only with the use of an erasing card it could be destroyed, and those are very rare.Corrigan 20:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

This is intentional. However, it can also be removed from the game or returned to someone's hand and discarded.-Bucky 20:13, 13 September 2007 (BST)

French Riot

How is Frenchness or Frenchiness determined? At least the card is self referential. -Gill smoke 19:06, 7 April 2008 (BST)

To quote the rules, "If there's an ambiguity, vote on it." -Bucky 00:52, 8 April 2008 (BST)

Ultimate weapon

I'm not sure but I think your action ability is swapped with your in play effect. Tit for tat for free (who gets to use it?), Action ability to end the game? Shouldn't the in play effect be if you have no things you loose, and the 10 for 8 destroy effect be the action ability?

The owner is the only one who can use its abilities. And you can only eliminate one player per turn but can nuke any number of players if you have enough Things. -Bucky 15:44, 15 August 2008 (BST)

A Wizard Did It

Does the implied "you" at the beginning of an imperative sentence ( (you) Draw a card at the end of your turn) or inside the word Action: (Instead of playing an action, you may...) count for this card?--ChippyYYZ 19:15, 24 July 2008 (BST)

Decoy

"Decoy does not have turns or a hand and may not make any decisions. You may use Decoy's Things as if you controlled them. If Decoy would win the game, you win instead. If Decoy would be eliminated, destroy it instead". How does Decoy get these Things you may use? Goldenboots 02:20, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

For example, a card reading "Give N Tokens to an Opponent"-Bucky 04:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

sudo rm -r /*

Shouldn't that be "Remove all cards from the game." ? --Gill smoke 14:32, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Only if you don't mind leaving the game in an unplayable state. -Bucky 21:44, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't mind, the game becomes a draw. The Unix command would be syntactically correct, sudo mv -r /* /dev/null would be equivalent and would make more sense as a delete all cards.

The Head of Vecna

According to lore Vecna still has his head. It was his hand and eye that were removed in his fight with Kas. But even if you removed Vecna's head Vecna would not be destroyed and would indeed eliminate you beyond resurrection for time and bother of getting his body back together. From a mechanics standpoint, I'm pretty sure The Head of Vecna could not perform it's action seeing how normally eliminated player's cannot take actions. The save from elimination cards usually act more like resurrection making you a new player, the rest are token based and let you keep going. Regardless there are none of those cards in this set, your repeated claims that the deck is Infinite doesn't account for how it is played. I was going to make a double whammy card like this myself, I was going to use the unplayable mechanic. --Gill smoke 12:46, 12 June 2009 (BST)

From a mechanics perspective, it's an extremely juicy target for text-modifying cards as well as a combo with anti-elimination cards. As for the lore, google it.-Bucky

I looked it up and although I played "Die Vecna Die!" our party was killed way before the head of Vecna appears, or the DM omitted it as foolishness. --Gill smoke 12:59, 19 June 2009 (BST)

Civil War and Golden Age

"While ... is in play, all other things have the text " did you mean instead of or in addition to their regular rules text? --Gill smoke 02:12, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Clarified. Not sure it was necessary.-Bucky 04:05, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

"All other Things gain the text..."? Binarius 09:01, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

In addition to their original rules text. For instance my hats do something now. --Gill smoke 18:25, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

And Marcel Marceau actually says something now? =O Binarius 22:06, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

No he performs an action ;) --Gill smoke 13:29, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Molten Hydrogen Oxide

Dude, that's just water. You might want to add a line break to make the flavor text line visible. --Gill smoke 14:50, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Sniper

Stealthy. I like it. The original contribution was missing the "text=" tag, which I have inserted (I hope with your permission, or at least forgiveness). On a side note, Sniper: on its way to challenging Insurance Policy, Booby Trap, and Taxation for a spot among the Most Frequently Used Card Titles in the deck? Time will tell... Binarius 23:39, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Rule Cards

Now that's a clever set of meta cards. (It was adding this comment that lead me to see your Snow comment) --Gill smoke 15:03, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Cards by Fanofphilosophy

fanofphilosophy keeps adding cards at places other than the end of the deck. Although this is not forbidden, the order of the cards is quite useful for tracing the development of certain ideas. -Bucky 00:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

"Create a card with any number of spellin or grammer mistakes and play it under another players control." - I don't know if it was intentional (and I'm not sure how you're expecting players to be able to fix the typos), but this is an easy instant-win card. --Kevan 22:14, 27 March 2007 (BST)

Sorry. I'm working on making it fair. Ideally, this card would be printed, and thus the edits would be made with pencil and/or pen. And, yes, all the errors were intentional, except for one. --fanofphilosophy

All right, Rouf Draft is fixed. . .I think. --fanofphilosophy

Oh, okay, so "all the mistakes are fixed" means "all the mistakes are spotted by other players". That works.

Cards can be created mid-game while playing online, by the way (at least through DvorakMUSH); you don't need an exception for that. --Kevan 01:17, 28 March 2007 (BST)

With "Desperado", the player who plays it would win even if there are fewer than 50 Things to destroy, making it a straight "I Win" card.-Bucky 01:52, 28 March 2007 (BST)

Clarified. --fanofphilosophy

Gray cards

Fanofphilosophy has been making a lot of gray cards lately. However, some of them are Actions and some of them are Things, so it's getting hard to scan his cards by eye.-Bucky 23:36, 28 March 2007 (BST)

That's only because I have no idea how the bgcolor system works, or what's "normal" for a thing or action. So I made it easy and made it all grey.--fanofphilosphy

For quick reference bgcolor=600 is Action-Red and bgcolor=006 is Thing-Blue. Unless you're doing something special (like Locations and Enemies from the Mario Bros. deck), that should be enough. If you want to know how those number work, let me know and I can point you to lots of web resources. MagiMaster 02:10, 30 March 2007 (BST)

I like 709 for things and 907 for actions.Fanofphilosophy 00:46, 15 April 2007 (BST)

Good thing nobody here has daltonism. Zaratustra 01:47, 24 April 2007 (BST)

Here's a quick reference then (if this is a good place for it):

006

Color

600

Color

907

Color

709

Color

Electrician

"the text Action: now reads Once per turn, you may" isn't always going to make grammatical sense, such as with "Action: Target player may show you any number of Action cards from their hand." in Crystal Ball. It'd be easier just to say something like "you may invoke that Action for free, once per turn". (And I don't think I'd want to have to deal with the effects of a Cyborg-Electrician...) --Kevan 11:04, 2 April 2007 (BST)

It's fixed, as well as the card Person, which has a similar effect. --fanofphilosphy

Cards by Kazz

Card "Striptease" is unsuitable for online play. -Bucky 23:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I suppose it is. Should I be keeping that in mind? I'll delete it. For the record, it was an Action: "If you remove all of your clothing immediately, you win." Kazz 23:19, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Eh, that seems okay; the player would just have to somehow prove that they'd done this. --Kevan 23:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, many of the cards by Kazz, when played, instantly unbalance the game in favor of whoever played them. While other cards, such as Magnitude Error, are quite powerful, few give their owner/user the sheer power of Horde, Throne, Pet, or Customs Board.

What, if anything, should be done about this? Horde is the worst offender, because not only are 9 Tokens cheap, but its protection effect also makes it powerful even without the victory condition. Throne is overpowered because there is only one card (Antimatter) that can destroy it without permission. Customs Board basically lets you see everyone's hand. Pet is overpowered for obvious reasons.

Again, should we adjust these cards? Should we introduce counter-cards knowing that they will probably not be used in the same deck? Or should we just let it go?-Bucky 06:12, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Uhm, apologies. I was the one that informed Kazz (among others) of the existence of this page, knowing of his tendency to do this kind of thing. Zaratustra 06:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The cards themselves are cool, they just need to be weakened. For example "Throne" would be fine if limited to negating one action per round, Horde would be fine without a victory condition (since it has a side effect of not allowing you to spend tokens) etc.-Bucky 07:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Given that this project is public, these cards are probably quite mild. We're bound to get straight "I win" cards coming in eventually.

Maybe we should view the card set as infinite and inevitably containing broken cards, and let players decide what subset to actually play with; the export functionality could be tweaked to allow "all cards except by this user" or "only include cards by these users". --Kevan 10:05, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure Win cards are broken. Filter choices should include filter out unMUSHable, maybe a random subset of XX cards.-gill_smoke

They're not broken, they're just boring. It's probably not worth adding a "mushable" field to all cards for the sake of a filter - a house rule that you can discard and redraw any cards that don't make any sense in your playing medium seems easy and obvious enough. --Kevan 19:56, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Cards by Kevan

Instant Speed

Does Instant Speed imply that that you could play an Action, then play another in response, then another in response to that, etc.? What about if you played a card that allowed you to draw? Would you be able to play the newly drawn cards in response to drawing them? (I'm only asking out of curiosity.) MagiMaster 18:03, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I suppose it does. Which isn't too powerful, but is a bit of a boring way for it to be used. I'll reword it. --Kevan 19:14, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Brand Loyalty

It seems that Brand Loyalty forces people to only use cards by Kevan. Perhaps it should say "except this card", or something? --fanofphilosophy

Good point. --Kevan 00:07, 29 March 2007 (BST)

Terrible Secret of Space

That last part doesn't need to be there. Robots aren't living things. CashCrazed 08:27, 30 March 2007 (BST)

It's a matter of opinion, it doesn't hurt to clarify. --Kevan 10:28, 30 March 2007 (BST)

The Element of Surprise

What if the card drawn can't be played in the current situation? --Kyevan 17:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Clearing the Air has the same problem, really. --Kyevan 17:39, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Good point; fixed. --Kevan 18:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Sodium Pentothal

This is possibly the most broken card in the game. It might as well read "Action:Flip a coin. If heads, target player loses the game." Except that it's more versatile than that. You can force a win in two turns. The relevant questions are: "Do I have (card X) in my hand?" (or any other question you know the answer to but they don't) and "Will you answer 'Yes' to the next question I ask you using Sodium Pentothal?" --Bucky 10:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Addendum: You can force another player to lose immediately with the question "Will I play another card this turn?" -Bucky 10:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Heh, good call. I've clarified what I was actually intending it to be used for. --Kevan 12:40, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Runaway Steamroller

Should be an action probably, not a thing. - Zt - 17:35, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I prefer it as a thing. It creates "food" for other cards, and threatens other power cards.--Gill smoke 19:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but probably as a thing it should not read: "Destroy a Thing and replace it with a Pancake token." but rather sth. like: "Each turn, destroy a thing..." or "When this comes into play..." That's all I wanted to say. - Zt - 20:00, 24. March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, this was a cut-and-paste error, it was meant to be an Action. --Kevan 22:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Queue Here

Is this card meant to refer only to non-token Things in play, or actually to all of them in the deck?Binarius 11:14, 1 August 2008 (BST)

In play. If all Thing cards in the draw pile counted as a "Thing", we'd be in trouble. --Kevan 13:52, 1 August 2008 (BST)

Arms Race

Wouldn't the "at least as many" phrase allow you to continue drawing as long as you wanted? Binarius 16:27, 4 August 2008 (BST)

Not the way I'm reading it. As soon as you have as many Things as your opponent, you have "at least as many", and have to stop. If you play the card when you already have more Things than your opponent, then you'd have to stop after the first time. --Kevan 17:20, 4 August 2008 (BST)

Market Forces

Since its action costs a money token to use, this could cause a stalemate if all money tokens were somehow destroyed. Its money creation action should probably be exempt from the money requirement.
--ChippyYYZ 21:04, 3 September 2008 (BST)

Archivist

Could I as an Archivist add a comment to the page with the datetime stamp as proof ie "<-- --Gill smoke 17:46, 24 September 2008 (BST) -->"? --Gill smoke 17:46, 24 September 2008 (BST)

A manually added datetime stamp could be forged, but it should be sufficient to go into the most recently archived page's history to show that you created the page. Binarius 44:44, 31 February 1913 (QED)

Schools of Magic

"When this comes into play, each player chooses a letter. A player can only play cards that contain the letter they chose." Contain the letter in the text or in the title? - Zt, 22:53, 01. October 2008 (CET)

Oh, good call, I meant to say title. --Kevan 23:06, 1 October 2008 (BST)

Spivak Shielding

"Cards which would use the incorrect "he/she" personal pronoun against you cannot be played." Does this mean:

I'm a she, the card says he, it doesn't operate against me? or

I'm a he or a she and the card says "he/she" which is hereby declared incorrect? Goldenboots 15:37, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Both, I suppose. Referring to someone as "he/she" is using both the correct and incorrect personal pronoun, which is enough to trigger it. --Kevan 15:50, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

What about "they"? The way I read it, that's not an "incorrect 'he/she' personal pronoun" because it's neither of those... Binarius 18:04, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Bruce

"While this card is in play, the title of all non-token Things in play is 'Bruce', and all tokens are Bruce tokens instead of their normal type. Action: Put a Bruce token into play."

First, way to nerf "University of Woolloomooloo Philosophy Department" which renames a Thing to "Bruce"! Second, when Bruce - *this* Bruce - goes out of play, do tokens and cards resume their old names? The word "normal" and the phrase "while this card is in play" (which is probably unnecessary since no rules continue after the Thing they are on is out of play) suggests we have to remember what all those tokens used to be called. Goldenboots 18:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Oops. I only had time to skim-read today, so missed that someone had already made the joke. Good job the deck is infinite, I suppose.

Yes, all Things would resume their own names when Bruce left play. I don't see this as being a "have to remember" thing, though - the Bruceness is just continually layered on top of the gamestate, which needn't actually be changed. (You wouldn't have to bother crossing out 'Gold' and writing 'Bruce' on a dozen tokens, you'd just wait until something happened that checked what type of tokens you had, and would treat them as Bruce tokens rather than Gold tokens.) --Kevan 19:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually both UWPD and Bruce can coexist. UWPD changes the name permanently. Now I have to think of a Sheila card. Goldenboots 02:55, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Malware

I didn't invent the game or anything but when you play a card on another player they become the possessor, the "You" changes to the owner. I've used similar effects with a token creation. I get the card you get the token.

Fixed. Thank you, masked stranger. --Kevan 23:13, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Wrapping Paper

"If a Thing has a Wrapping token on it, its card text is blank. When this comes into play, put a Wrapping token on all non-token Things. When a non-token Thing comes into play, put a Wrapping token on it. Any player may take an Action to destroy a Wrapping token." This works fine as is, but note that new Things will NOT get Wrapping tokens automatically unless someone has unwrapped "Wrapping Paper" Goldenboots 21:37, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Which would be tricky when its own text was blank. Fixed. --Kevan 23:13, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Is it your intention that, if Wrapping Paper is destroyed, all the leftover Wrapping tokens hang around, attached to other things but otherwise ineffectual? --Tweed Cap 17:17, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Cards by KillSmiley

The cards "Free-For-All" and "The Dreaded Legal Department" are colored and written as Actions, but are of type Thing. This should be corrected. -Bucky 03:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, he corrected it.-Bucky 05:25, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Cards by Ryan_1729

Lock and Key

Don't forget the "cards shouldn't refer to other cards" rule - it's very unlikely that your "Lock" and "Key" cards will both be drawn in the course of the same game. (Even if you meant "a 'Key' card" to mean "any card that could be considered a key", we've yet to see any sort of key card appear in 250-odd cards, so it isn't going to be a card type that occurs very often.)

Also, you seem a bit confused about the distinction between "destroy" and "discard"; reading the glossary might help. --Kevan 10:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Spamming the deck with duplicate "Key" cards isn't a particularly interesting solution to this. --Kevan 22:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Office

"If five or more cards that count as office supplies are played on this card..." - I'm guessing we're going to get five "This card counts as an office supply." cards from you, now. Please try to think a little harder about the infinite nature of the deck, and the "cards shouldn't refer to other cards" guideline. I've just reworded it to add a useful rule of thumb - if you made a deck from a random subpage of 100 cards, and added your card to it, and your card would be completely useless, then you should think about rewording it. --Kevan 11:22, 27 March 2007 (BST)

Office is just as useless in a game with less than five office supply cards as Alphabet coup, Playing With a Full Deck, The Obliteration of All Other Life Forms, Anagrammaton, Top Trumps and Eight Men Down and a few others without the necessary cards. There are also many cards that only interact with living things and as of right now only one card exists that counts as a living thing! Although there are a few that can create them. Also it is currently possible to randomly choose a deck with no way to win or lose and with no way to end the game short of abandoning it. --Ryan 1729 23:38, 27 March 2007 (BST)

Alphabet Coup and Full Deck both have the same specificity problem, but the others all rely on card aspects that are at least fairly common. I think you've overlooked "If there's an ambiguity, vote on it." in the Special Rules for this game (which does in fact cite "living things" as an example). It's much easier to have a vague voting rule for this sort of thing, than to have to guess what sorts of qualities future cards are going to be looking for. So you could word your Office card as "If five or more Things that you would find in a normal office..." and it could include earlier and later cards (like Receipt Drawer) which weren't aware of there being an "office supply" card trait.

You're absolutely right about randomly choosing a deck with no victory condition; Zara and I tried a MUSH game with cards 201-300, and both ended up resigning when we realised how rare and difficult the victory conditions were. When I get around to writing a customised export script, I'll add something to make sure that any random selection of cards includes a good number of victory conditions. --Kevan 00:12, 28 March 2007 (BST)

I thought the idea, as far as 'counting as whatever', was that you didn't have to specify most of the time and people just voted on it if they were unsure. I wouldn't think you'd have to specify 'office supplies' on stuff like paper and staples. You might have to specify on stuff that you think should be office supplies, but not everyone might, like coffee. MagiMaster 00:11, 28 March 2007 (BST)

Obscurity pays off

This card is an "I Win" card online because everyone has access to dice of any number of sides.-Bucky 02:45, 28 March 2007 (BST)

The electronic dice rolling machine on the MUSH, you mean? It's a bit of an "I win" card regardless - the race condition of "first player to" is meaningless, as the player who's drawn the card can just look for their dice and make sure they have them ready immediately before playing the card. --Kevan 10:01, 28 March 2007 (BST)

Okay, would you rather I tapered the reward down to some amount of money or gold tokens? --Ryan 1729 00:14, 30 March 2007 (BST)

Elephant Stampede

In case anyone cares, I just looked at the Sci-Fi Fantasy deck for the first time today. The Elephant Stampede from this deck was independently thought up. --Ryan 1729 03:07, 4 April 2007 (BST)

Name Game

I don't get Name Game. How is that supposed to work? It's really confusing. --fanofphilosophy

Take the number of letters in your first name. Say... five. As long as Name Game is in play you aren't allowed to directly say that number. For example, you and some friends are playing with real cards, and there's a pile of coins to be used as tokens; you ask someone closer to the coins to pass you five of the same type. If you actually said "five" then you would have to discard a card. You wouldn't have had to discard a card if you had said "one less than six," or "two more than three" or something like that. If you have no cards then say the number you are then eliminated.

I hope this helps, it's hard to explain fully on a card. If you have any suggestions for better wording please mention it here. --Ryan 1729 02:33, 4 April 2007 (BST)

Blue Wizard

The Blue Wizard (NEEDS FOOD BADLY) is a good idea, I just don't like the time limit. I have seen very few, if any, food/food-related cards besides the one I just made. What if there are no food/food-related cards in the deck for a particular game?Fanofphilosophy 02:13, 7 April 2007 (BST)

Laundromat

This card forces each player to give you a Quarter token every turn, regardless of whether or not they use the Action, and even if they don't have any. This does not seem to be the intent of the card.-Bucky 21:23, 21 April 2007 (BST)

Cards by Zaratustra

"Spend 1 Energy to produce 1 Blood." - maybe I should reword "cards shouldn't refer to other cards" to stress the infinite thing more; even if there are other cards that refer to Energy and Blood in the deck, if they don't come up in the same game then this card is meaningless, and fairly useless. (Well, usable as a generic, effectively-blank Thing, but having a blank card in the set seems a bit of a waste, when it could have had a similar but game-affecting mechanic.) --Kevan 23:49, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

"Produce 1 Blood" is fine because other cards can read "Destroy/Spend 1 liquid Thing". likewise, "Spend 1 Energy" is fine because you can use many kinds of Energy, presumably including Heat, "Lightning Bolt" cards etc.-Bucky 23:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, that feels like it's straying into Blank White Card territory, where anything can mean anything if you argue it entertainingly enough; although that's fun, I think it's useful to keep the distinction that Dvorak has strict and consistent rules.

Maybe it'd be good to have a general rule about resolving arbitrary decisions - whenever anything is open to interpretation (like Katamari's "smallest Thing"), it goes to a straight vote, and if there's no majority verdict then it's resolved in some generic, automatic way. But Artificial Heart's "spend 1 Energy" puts far too much onus on the players to decide what "spend 1 Energy" counts as; whether a Lightning Bolt should generate more than 1 Energy, whether Springfield Nuclear Power Station should be able to "spend 1 Energy" every single turn without destroying itself, whether a player's sweeping Plasma Storm can power someone else's Heart, etc.

"Discard or destroy an electricity-related card you control, to put a Blood counter into play." would work better, I think, with players only having to vote on whether a particular card is "electricity-related" or not. --Kevan 00:18, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

There, better? Zaratustra 01:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think so. Argue this out with me if you think I've got the wrong idea about how this deck should work, though. --Kevan 01:37, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

"The Only Winning Move" is badly worded; For example, it allows you to win if at any point earlier in the game three other players had each skipped a turn for unrelated reasons. A better wording would be "You win the game when 3 of your turns have been skipped in this manner."-Bucky 02:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

About "The B": Are we meant to assume that if you use its Action twice, you may draw 1 card? Or are are we supposed to, say, cut the top card in the draw pile in half and put that in our hand?-Corrigan 12:21, 28 September, 2007 (UTC)

Yes. -- Zaratustra 01:50, 29 September 2007 (BST)

Does this mean that players are supposed to vote as to its meaning? -- Corrigan 10:18, 31 September 2007 (BST)

Cantor Set: This card's wording assumes a two-player game. It should be reworded to allow for a different number of players.-Bucky 06:24, 2 October 2007 (BST)

Cards by Jindra34

I would like to know at the very least what people think of my "tack on" cards.--Jindra34

It's good, it's a nice, fresh mechanic. There's some potential for it to interact weirdly with certain actions (such as Russian Roulette) where the extra sentence would get tacked onto a conditional, but I suppose that's part of the fun. --Kevan 13:58, 19 April 2007 (BST)

Wow i'm being mimicked i'm so flattered...--Jindra34

Ink Pen may be -slightly- overpowered, as you can just add 'Win.' to any Action card in your hand.

Does win make any sense as a sentence on its own, and would you be able to convince a majority of the players of that? I think not.

Excuse me, but could you explain which things Heavenly Bow(card 604) has access to? As in, would it allow you yo remove a foes card and place it under the draw pile? --[[User:|NARF]] 22:06, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Cards by cashcrazed

Jihad

Would a player force his or her opponents to tell their religions? It would be unfair to let some tell and some not, and yet mean to force people to tell.--fanofphilosophy

I didn't figure a person's religion was any sort of personal secret. If they have a problem with revealing their religion, then I guess they just lose the Thing. CashCrazed 03:05, 30 March 2007 (BST)

Well, I agree that it probably wouldn't be a secret, but it's not something I would want brought up during a game either. MagiMaster 03:15, 30 March 2007 (BST)

The player who played it could reveal what their religion is, so the other players would just have to say whether their religion is the same or not. --Ryan 1729 04:23, 30 March 2007 (BST)

Uncategorized

Alphabet coup

As of addition of card "Fun Time!" it is now possible(though very unlikely) to win using card "Alphabet coup." --Ryan 1729 12:03, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

It was possible anyway with "Pocket Universe".-Bucky 15:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Spam

Is this card too obnoxious? It would grind the game to a halt if everyone simply spent their turn drawing Spam from the top of the pile, then using their Action to put it back there for the next person. CashCrazed 09:06, 28 March 2007 (BST)

Not necessarily. Remember, there are several cards that cause the drawing of multiple cards, and others that send cards from the draw pile to the discard pile. And anyway, I don't think that players would want to continue to play Spam over and over; that would get boring pretty quickly. Corrigan 18:18, 19 September 2007 (BST)

The Best Card Ever

Is this card too... awkward to keep? --Kyevan 03:15, 20 October 2007 (BST)

It's completely meaningless if you're playing online. It's also completely meaningless within the game. It also violates the "no lasting effects of actions" rule.-Bucky 09:31, 20 October 2007 (BST)

But it's fun! If you read El Goonish Shive, anyway. Hmm... I'll pull it from the deck and keep it on my user page. Sound good? --Kyevan 14:19, 20 October 2007 (BST) (Edited: Oops! Forgot to sign)

Cards by jtwe

A Lead Role in a Cage

Normally at the beginning of your turn you draw a card. Do you mean this card's beginning of turn effect to be, draw an additional card? --Gill smoke 11:16, 2 October 2008 (BST)

Yes, an additional card. It probably should specify that. Jtwe 15:31, 2 October 2008 (BST)

Mana Ramp

Shouldn't Mana Ramp specify allowable land token types on creation. (perhaps parenthetically) --Gill smoke 16:20, 2 October 2008 (BST)

Nope. The only tokens it produces are Land tokens; that is, tokens named Land. If you happen to control Sherwood Forest or Mount Fuji or something they contribute to the extra Action ability too, but all you're getting from the Ramp is Land. Although, if I got rid of the mention of Plains, etc., I would have room for the flavor text, which, of course, is "YEEEEEEEEEEEE HA!" Jtwe 17:05, 2 October 2008 (BST)

I see the semantic difference now "Land, Plains, ..."--Gill smoke 03:34, 3 October 2008 (BST)

Cards by Corrigan

Welcome to Dvorak, Corrigan - I've moved your excess cards out to a sub-page of your user page, if you want to add them back in again later. The multiple cards and the title corrections aren't too serious, but they're not a great precedent to set, either.

(And the thing about adding to the end is written, by the way, Bucky; it's part of the first rule.) --Kevan 12:41, 29 May 2007 (BST)

Kevan you also moved one of my cards that he hijacked to the list --Jindra34

Oops - sorry about that. --Kevan 10:47, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Bratva: This card is for all practical purposes the same as "Throne" on page 1. -Bucky 02:16, 4 June 2007 (BST)

We're getting a few repeats now. I think it's fine - we shouldn't expect people to have to read hundreds of previous cards before adding their own, and seeing the same mechanics crop up with different names and styles is fun. The deck is infinite, after all... --Kevan 13:39, 29 June 2007 (BST)

Showdown: In a normal game without a specific card there will only be one draw pile for everyone to use. Thus this card needs to be reworked.Jindra34 1:51 5 June 2007.

Clavin Ball: Is this card even remotely legal?-- Jindra34

The game of Dvorak has Special Rules, so it's fine to create new ones during the course of the game. It's no different to a card with text of "reword this to anything and it can't ever be destroyed". --Kevan 10:47, 8 June 2007 (BST)

What about the rule that there would be no special rules? --Jindra34

Oh, good point. Maybe this would be better written as just another "create a new card" card, for consistency's sake. --Kevan 00:20, 10 June 2007 (BST)

"Nomic" gets around this by allowing that rule to be changed. And cards take presidence over special rules anyway.-Bucky

"Don't make any special rules" is a card-design guideline, in the same sense as "don't add more than three cards at a time", rather than a special rule itself.

Normal Dvorak allows the creation and deletion of special rules - it just seemed a bad idea for this game, when every card was from a separate parallel universe, and any special rule created by a card would never be explicitly referenced by any other cards. --Kevan 10:01, 10 June 2007 (BST)

Reduce, Reuse and Recycle all break the "no special rules" guideline by introducing ongoing effects that players are required to remember. I think there's only one card that can actually end these effects (your own Bono card), so in a randomly infinite game, these are all going to be permanent, invisible effects. They might as well just be Thing cards. --Kevan 13:39, 29 June 2007 (BST)

Depressi's 'Blackboard cleaning' card also removes lingering Action effects. If it is against the rules to have long-lasting Actions, why is that aspect of 'Blackboard cleaning' still there? I know this is a little late. --Corrigan 16:52 8 September 2007 (BST)

He probably didn't notice the rule. There are plenty of old cards that do broken or pointless things. --Kevan 12:01, 9 September 2007 (BST)

Double-Sided Forcefield:This card needs rewording because it causes a paradox as soon as it is played (since its effect forbids itself).-Bucky 05:46, 8 August 2007 (BST)

Mercantilism: "A player can gain control of a Thing with a cornervalue by giving its controller an amount of Money tokens equal to its cornervalue" means that nothing can ever be actually stolen, as the seller can immediately buy it back for the same amount. --Kevan 10:45, 18 August 2007 (BST)

The Past-Seer and The Future-Seer: I know we're supposed to assume that there's an infinite amount of cards, but if you got these two cards you could given enough time search the deck for any card you wanted and it'd be pretty time consuming and kill the pace of the game. You'd also be able to make sure your opponents never got any useful cards. --Wikey 06:24, 22 August 2007 (BST)

I think any reasonable opponent would admire the combo and let it be played as "pick any card from the deck, shuffle it then put that card on top", to save time. --Kevan 10:12, 25 August 2007 (BST)

Zero, Zero and Zero. Don't forget the "cards shouldn't refer to other cards" rule. In an infinite deck, you're unlikely to draw two zeroes... --Kevan 10:05, 25 August 2007 (BST)

Having a single Zero is useful on its own, so I'd say it's forgivable. They also combo with anything that clones cards. Jtwe 16:42, 25 August 2007 (BST)

Energy Concept is a nice idea, but I imagine that "they must destroy 1 Energy token" is missing a "...they control." --Kevan 11:58, 2 September 2007 (BST)

Do you realize how powerful an "Action: Destroy target Thing" card is? It's been taboo up until recently, when you added several such cards. -Bucky 23:04, 19 September 2007 (BST)

You could also create cards with defensive effects. That would make those Things less powerful. -Corrigan 18:53, October 4, 2007 (BST)

This is an infinite deck, though, and most cards won't have those effects. --Kevan 13:40, 5 October 2007 (BST)

Closest to Mao as We Can Get... "Whenever a player's hand is empty, they win." is pretty powerful in itself, given that you just have to play this card when the rest of your hand is empty. --Kevan 09:29, 12 October 2007 (BST)

"Save", "Damn" - These cards need reworking if I'm reading them correctly, as they violate the "no special rules" rule due to their lasting effects.-Bucky 05:00, 14 May 2008 (BST)

Having text on tokens is a bit of a weird fix to this, since tokens don't normally have text, and it would still need to be tracked somewhere to work. If we want a token with text, I think we usually just say "make a new Thing card with the following text". But Damn and Save could just be Things that get played under an opponent's control, I think. --Kevan 00:18, 23 May 2008 (BST)

As for tokens with text, I think the wording I used on Mass Haste is probably as clear as it's going to get, for whatever that's worth. But I agree that Damn and Save could easily be Things. --Jtwe 18:12, 23 May 2008 (BST)

Communist Fashion

Cards 701-800. Violates "No Lasting Effects" (No Special Rules). --Pongo 09:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Corpse Jelly

Another one! It's a card whose effect appears to outlast its lifetime. "If the Thing ever refers to itself by name, replace its name with 'Corpse Jelly'." --Pongo 18:17, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorrow

Which way are you supposed to round? --Tweed Cap 15:09, 12 April 2008 (BST)

Suggestion: If you have an odd number when you have to divide, create another token to make an even number. --Tweed Cap 15:15, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Invade Iraq

More violation of the lingering game effect guideline. If you want to create tokens with text on them, the cleanest ways are either just create new cards with given content during the game, or to have a Thing that defines the game abilities of the tokens, but only for as long as that Thing sticks around.

The current wording actually raises some unintuitive problems - if I play a "create a token of any type" card three turns later and choose "Oil", then my Oil token won't have any special abilities, because it wasn't hit by the "write this text on these tokens" part of the Action from three turns ago. --Kevan 12:03, 12 June 2008 (BST)

It's all fixed now; I changed it into a Thing called "Occupation of Iraq". --- Corrigan 14:53 July 4, 2008 (BST)

Ilgeayidzed Jistogu

Copycat. Did you really have to make it not a shift-cipher? I swear I'm gonna figure this thing out.--ChippyYYZ 01:47, 23 July 2008 (BST)

I lied. I tried and it didn't work.--ChippyYYZ 21:23, 18 May 2009 (BST)

False Friends

Does this affect only instances of those words on cards, or the definitions of the words themselves? When you draw a card at the beginning of your turn, do you have to discard one instead? And how about discarding when you're past maximum hand size?--ChippyYYZ 21:23, 18 May 2009 (BST)

After playing with this card a bit, it seems this is the most important card in any game it appears in. Not only is it nearly impossible to destroy, but it causes some cards to become fairly useless (anything that targets things) and others to become preposterously powerful (Full Circle, The Answer Lies Within, Nihilism). It does funny stuff to the phrase "discard pile" too.--ChippyYYZ 23:51, 20 May 2009 (BST)

Cards by GreenLiquid

I have a strong objection to the way you worded the last sentence card. First, there are several cards which could usually reverse such an effect (such as Wand of Cancellation in the 201-300 block), but cannot due to that clause. Second, with the way it's worded, playing it a second time will not reverse the effect; it will merely allow a Wand of Cancellation to do its work. A better wording would be "This effect ends when Greatest Ploy Ever is played a second time." --Bucky 06:08, 2 October 2007 (BST)

It's also in direct violation of the "No Special Rules" rule. -Bucky 05:03, 3 October 2007 (BST)