Talk:Infinite Dvorak deck/Archived Talk

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Cards by Bucky

[Hex:] It certainly has odd synergies with Magnitude Error. :D Zaratustra 19:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Aw. Zaratustra 20:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The problem was that it applied to itself. Its actual base could not be determined, since it claimed it was some base other than "10".-Bucky 20:26, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Land of the Immortals

Is there any way at all to destroy Land of the Immortals? It is a Thing, and thus can't be destroyed while it is in play. It would seem that only with the use of an erasing card it could be destroyed, and those are very rare.Corrigan 20:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

This is intentional. However, it can also be removed from the game or returned to someone's hand and discarded.-Bucky 20:13, 13 September 2007 (BST)

I'm glad to see your new Cards, are the corner values meant for collectors? -Gill smoke 20:03, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

There's no point in collecting when you can just print out any card you want. I put in the cornervalues because some of the earlier cards deal with cornervalues in letter-number format, which there haven't been many of lately.-Bucky 00:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

So are you going to make some new corner value manipulators?-Gill smoke 19:49, 14 April 2008 (BST)

What's with the "chained" cards, the ones that make a copy of an another card? Are you trying to nomicly get around the infinite nature of the deck? If this card exists then these supporting ones do too. It's a clever tactic. -Gill smoke 19:49, 14 April 2008 (BST)

I started by making tokens with text. Then I realized I'd run out of card space for anything complex, so I settled on using Things that make specific non-token Things. Also note that any card in the main five-card cycle will eventually let you fetch the other four.-Bucky 20:14, 14 April 2008 (BST)

French Riot

How is Frenchness or Frenchiness determined? At least the card is self referential. -Gill smoke 19:06, 7 April 2008 (BST)

To quote the rules, "If there's an ambiguity, vote on it." -Bucky 00:52, 8 April 2008 (BST)

Ultimate weapon

I'm not sure but I think your action ability is swapped with your in play effect. Tit for tat for free (who gets to use it?), Action ability to end the game? Shouldn't the in play effect be if you have no things you loose, and the 10 for 8 destroy effect be the action ability?

The owner is the only one who can use its abilities. And you can only eliminate one player per turn but can nuke any number of players if you have enough Things. -Bucky 15:44, 15 August 2008 (BST)

A Wizard Did It

Does the implied "you" at the beginning of an imperative sentence ( (you) Draw a card at the end of your turn) or inside the word Action: (Instead of playing an action, you may...) count for this card?--ChippyYYZ 19:15, 24 July 2008 (BST)

Decoy

"Decoy does not have turns or a hand and may not make any decisions. You may use Decoy's Things as if you controlled them. If Decoy would win the game, you win instead. If Decoy would be eliminated, destroy it instead". How does Decoy get these Things you may use? Goldenboots 02:20, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

For example, a card reading "Give N Tokens to an Opponent"-Bucky 04:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

sudo rm -r /*

Shouldn't that be "Remove all cards from the game." ? --Gill smoke 14:32, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Only if you don't mind leaving the game in an unplayable state. -Bucky 21:44, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't mind, the game becomes a draw. The Unix command would be syntactically correct, sudo mv -r /* /dev/null would be equivalent and would make more sense as a delete all cards.

The Head of Vecna

According to lore Vecna still has his head. It was his hand and eye that were removed in his fight with Kas. But even if you removed Vecna's head Vecna would not be destroyed and would indeed eliminate you beyond resurrection for time and bother of getting his body back together. From a mechanics standpoint, I'm pretty sure The Head of Vecna could not perform it's action seeing how normally eliminated player's cannot take actions. The save from elimination cards usually act more like resurrection making you a new player, the rest are token based and let you keep going. Regardless there are none of those cards in this set, your repeated claims that the deck is Infinite doesn't account for how it is played. I was going to make a double whammy card like this myself, I was going to use the unplayable mechanic. --Gill smoke 12:46, 12 June 2009 (BST)

From a mechanics perspective, it's an extremely juicy target for text-modifying cards as well as a combo with anti-elimination cards. As for the lore, google it.-Bucky

I looked it up and although I played "Die Vecna Die!" our party was killed way before the head of Vecna appears, or the DM omitted it as foolishness. --Gill smoke 12:59, 19 June 2009 (BST)

Civil War and Golden Age

"While ... is in play, all other things have the text " did you mean instead of or in addition to their regular rules text? --Gill smoke 02:12, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Clarified. Not sure it was necessary.-Bucky 04:05, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

"All other Things gain the text..."? Binarius 09:01, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

In addition to their original rules text. For instance my hats do something now. --Gill smoke 18:25, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

And Marcel Marceau actually says something now? =O Binarius 22:06, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

No he performs an action ;) --Gill smoke 13:29, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Molten Hydrogen Oxide

Dude, that's just water. You might want to add a line break to make the flavor text line visible. --Gill smoke 14:50, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Sniper

Stealthy. I like it. The original contribution was missing the "text=" tag, which I have inserted (I hope with your permission, or at least forgiveness). On a side note, Sniper: on its way to challenging Insurance Policy, Booby Trap, and Taxation for a spot among the Most Frequently Used Card Titles in the deck? Time will tell... Binarius 23:39, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Rule Cards

Now that's a clever set of meta cards. (It was adding this comment that lead me to see your Snow comment) --Gill smoke 15:03, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Cards by Fanofphilosophy

fanofphilosophy keeps adding cards at places other than the end of the deck. Although this is not forbidden, the order of the cards is quite useful for tracing the development of certain ideas. -Bucky 00:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

"Create a card with any number of spellin or grammer mistakes and play it under another players control." - I don't know if it was intentional (and I'm not sure how you're expecting players to be able to fix the typos), but this is an easy instant-win card. --Kevan 22:14, 27 March 2007 (BST)

Sorry. I'm working on making it fair. Ideally, this card would be printed, and thus the edits would be made with pencil and/or pen. And, yes, all the errors were intentional, except for one. --fanofphilosophy

All right, Rouf Draft is fixed. . .I think. --fanofphilosophy

Oh, okay, so "all the mistakes are fixed" means "all the mistakes are spotted by other players". That works.

Cards can be created mid-game while playing online, by the way (at least through DvorakMUSH); you don't need an exception for that. --Kevan 01:17, 28 March 2007 (BST)

With "Desperado", the player who plays it would win even if there are fewer than 50 Things to destroy, making it a straight "I Win" card.-Bucky 01:52, 28 March 2007 (BST)

Clarified. --fanofphilosophy

Gray cards

Fanofphilosophy has been making a lot of gray cards lately. However, some of them are Actions and some of them are Things, so it's getting hard to scan his cards by eye.-Bucky 23:36, 28 March 2007 (BST)

That's only because I have no idea how the bgcolor system works, or what's "normal" for a thing or action. So I made it easy and made it all grey.--fanofphilosphy

For quick reference bgcolor=600 is Action-Red and bgcolor=006 is Thing-Blue. Unless you're doing something special (like Locations and Enemies from the Mario Bros. deck), that should be enough. If you want to know how those number work, let me know and I can point you to lots of web resources. MagiMaster 02:10, 30 March 2007 (BST)

I like 709 for things and 907 for actions.Fanofphilosophy 00:46, 15 April 2007 (BST)

Good thing nobody here has daltonism. Zaratustra 01:47, 24 April 2007 (BST)

Here's a quick reference then (if this is a good place for it):

006

Color

600

Color

907

Color

709

Color

Electrician

"the text Action: now reads Once per turn, you may" isn't always going to make grammatical sense, such as with "Action: Target player may show you any number of Action cards from their hand." in Crystal Ball. It'd be easier just to say something like "you may invoke that Action for free, once per turn". (And I don't think I'd want to have to deal with the effects of a Cyborg-Electrician...) --Kevan 11:04, 2 April 2007 (BST)

It's fixed, as well as the card Person, which has a similar effect. --fanofphilosphy

Cards by Kazz

Card "Striptease" is unsuitable for online play. -Bucky 23:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I suppose it is. Should I be keeping that in mind? I'll delete it. For the record, it was an Action: "If you remove all of your clothing immediately, you win." Kazz 23:19, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Eh, that seems okay; the player would just have to somehow prove that they'd done this. --Kevan 23:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, many of the cards by Kazz, when played, instantly unbalance the game in favor of whoever played them. While other cards, such as Magnitude Error, are quite powerful, few give their owner/user the sheer power of Horde, Throne, Pet, or Customs Board.

What, if anything, should be done about this? Horde is the worst offender, because not only are 9 Tokens cheap, but its protection effect also makes it powerful even without the victory condition. Throne is overpowered because there is only one card (Antimatter) that can destroy it without permission. Customs Board basically lets you see everyone's hand. Pet is overpowered for obvious reasons.

Again, should we adjust these cards? Should we introduce counter-cards knowing that they will probably not be used in the same deck? Or should we just let it go?-Bucky 06:12, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Uhm, apologies. I was the one that informed Kazz (among others) of the existence of this page, knowing of his tendency to do this kind of thing. Zaratustra 06:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The cards themselves are cool, they just need to be weakened. For example "Throne" would be fine if limited to negating one action per round, Horde would be fine without a victory condition (since it has a side effect of not allowing you to spend tokens) etc.-Bucky 07:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Given that this project is public, these cards are probably quite mild. We're bound to get straight "I win" cards coming in eventually.

Maybe we should view the card set as infinite and inevitably containing broken cards, and let players decide what subset to actually play with; the export functionality could be tweaked to allow "all cards except by this user" or "only include cards by these users". --Kevan 10:05, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure Win cards are broken. Filter choices should include filter out unMUSHable, maybe a random subset of XX cards.-gill_smoke

They're not broken, they're just boring. It's probably not worth adding a "mushable" field to all cards for the sake of a filter - a house rule that you can discard and redraw any cards that don't make any sense in your playing medium seems easy and obvious enough. --Kevan 19:56, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Cards by Kevan

Instant Speed

Does Instant Speed imply that that you could play an Action, then play another in response, then another in response to that, etc.? What about if you played a card that allowed you to draw? Would you be able to play the newly drawn cards in response to drawing them? (I'm only asking out of curiosity.) MagiMaster 18:03, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I suppose it does. Which isn't too powerful, but is a bit of a boring way for it to be used. I'll reword it. --Kevan 19:14, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Brand Loyalty

It seems that Brand Loyalty forces people to only use cards by Kevan. Perhaps it should say "except this card", or something? --fanofphilosophy

Good point. --Kevan 00:07, 29 March 2007 (BST)

Terrible Secret of Space

That last part doesn't need to be there. Robots aren't living things. CashCrazed 08:27, 30 March 2007 (BST)

It's a matter of opinion, it doesn't hurt to clarify. --Kevan 10:28, 30 March 2007 (BST)

The Element of Surprise

What if the card drawn can't be played in the current situation? --Kyevan 17:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Clearing the Air has the same problem, really. --Kyevan 17:39, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Good point; fixed. --Kevan 18:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Sodium Pentothal

This is possibly the most broken card in the game. It might as well read "Action:Flip a coin. If heads, target player loses the game." Except that it's more versatile than that. You can force a win in two turns. The relevant questions are: "Do I have (card X) in my hand?" (or any other question you know the answer to but they don't) and "Will you answer 'Yes' to the next question I ask you using Sodium Pentothal?" --Bucky 10:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Addendum: You can force another player to lose immediately with the question "Will I play another card this turn?" -Bucky 10:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Heh, good call. I've clarified what I was actually intending it to be used for. --Kevan 12:40, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Runaway Steamroller

Should be an action probably, not a thing. - Zt - 17:35, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I prefer it as a thing. It creates "food" for other cards, and threatens other power cards.--Gill smoke 19:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but probably as a thing it should not read: "Destroy a Thing and replace it with a Pancake token." but rather sth. like: "Each turn, destroy a thing..." or "When this comes into play..." That's all I wanted to say. - Zt - 20:00, 24. March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, this was a cut-and-paste error, it was meant to be an Action. --Kevan 22:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Queue Here

Is this card meant to refer only to non-token Things in play, or actually to all of them in the deck?Binarius 11:14, 1 August 2008 (BST)

In play. If all Thing cards in the draw pile counted as a "Thing", we'd be in trouble. --Kevan 13:52, 1 August 2008 (BST)

Arms Race

Wouldn't the "at least as many" phrase allow you to continue drawing as long as you wanted? Binarius 16:27, 4 August 2008 (BST)

Not the way I'm reading it. As soon as you have as many Things as your opponent, you have "at least as many", and have to stop. If you play the card when you already have more Things than your opponent, then you'd have to stop after the first time. --Kevan 17:20, 4 August 2008 (BST)

Market Forces

Since its action costs a money token to use, this could cause a stalemate if all money tokens were somehow destroyed. Its money creation action should probably be exempt from the money requirement.
--ChippyYYZ 21:04, 3 September 2008 (BST)

Archivist

Could I as an Archivist add a comment to the page with the datetime stamp as proof ie "<-- --Gill smoke 17:46, 24 September 2008 (BST) -->"? --Gill smoke 17:46, 24 September 2008 (BST)

A manually added datetime stamp could be forged, but it should be sufficient to go into the most recently archived page's history to show that you created the page. Binarius 44:44, 31 February 1913 (QED)

Schools of Magic

"When this comes into play, each player chooses a letter. A player can only play cards that contain the letter they chose." Contain the letter in the text or in the title? - Zt, 22:53, 01. October 2008 (CET)

Oh, good call, I meant to say title. --Kevan 23:06, 1 October 2008 (BST)

Spivak Shielding

"Cards which would use the incorrect "he/she" personal pronoun against you cannot be played." Does this mean:

I'm a she, the card says he, it doesn't operate against me? or

I'm a he or a she and the card says "he/she" which is hereby declared incorrect? Goldenboots 15:37, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Both, I suppose. Referring to someone as "he/she" is using both the correct and incorrect personal pronoun, which is enough to trigger it. --Kevan 15:50, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

What about "they"? The way I read it, that's not an "incorrect 'he/she' personal pronoun" because it's neither of those... Binarius 18:04, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Bruce

"While this card is in play, the title of all non-token Things in play is 'Bruce', and all tokens are Bruce tokens instead of their normal type. Action: Put a Bruce token into play."

First, way to nerf "University of Woolloomooloo Philosophy Department" which renames a Thing to "Bruce"! Second, when Bruce - *this* Bruce - goes out of play, do tokens and cards resume their old names? The word "normal" and the phrase "while this card is in play" (which is probably unnecessary since no rules continue after the Thing they are on is out of play) suggests we have to remember what all those tokens used to be called. Goldenboots 18:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Oops. I only had time to skim-read today, so missed that someone had already made the joke. Good job the deck is infinite, I suppose.

Yes, all Things would resume their own names when Bruce left play. I don't see this as being a "have to remember" thing, though - the Bruceness is just continually layered on top of the gamestate, which needn't actually be changed. (You wouldn't have to bother crossing out 'Gold' and writing 'Bruce' on a dozen tokens, you'd just wait until something happened that checked what type of tokens you had, and would treat them as Bruce tokens rather than Gold tokens.) --Kevan 19:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually both UWPD and Bruce can coexist. UWPD changes the name permanently. Now I have to think of a Sheila card. Goldenboots 02:55, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Malware

I didn't invent the game or anything but when you play a card on another player they become the possessor, the "You" changes to the owner. I've used similar effects with a token creation. I get the card you get the token.

Fixed. Thank you, masked stranger. --Kevan 23:13, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Wrapping Paper

"If a Thing has a Wrapping token on it, its card text is blank. When this comes into play, put a Wrapping token on all non-token Things. When a non-token Thing comes into play, put a Wrapping token on it. Any player may take an Action to destroy a Wrapping token." This works fine as is, but note that new Things will NOT get Wrapping tokens automatically unless someone has unwrapped "Wrapping Paper" Goldenboots 21:37, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Which would be tricky when its own text was blank. Fixed. --Kevan 23:13, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Is it your intention that, if Wrapping Paper is destroyed, all the leftover Wrapping tokens hang around, attached to other things but otherwise ineffectual? --Tweed Cap 17:17, 27 December 2008 (UTC)