Talk:Chronogeddon CCG card set

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This deck is currently under construction. The basic mechanics are still liable to change, but we're creating cards to flesh the game out. Feel free to add cards that fit the existing mechanics, or add minor new mechanics, but don't add any major mechanics or change any existing ones without discussing them first on the talk page.

Old talk on this subject has been archived.
Joker's thoughts are at Talk:New CCG/joker.

Project status?

So what's happening with this? Do people think we've got enough material to put some coherent first-draft rules up on the main article page, and make enough cards for an alpha-test set? --Kevan 16:52, 26 March 2007 (BST)

I think so. --Depressi
Me too. --James 19:34, 6 April 2007 (BST)
So... who does it? Zaratustra 01:10, 10 April 2007 (BST)
I'd be happy to, but I'd say James got first refusal, as he started the project. --Kevan 12:22, 10 April 2007 (BST)
Sorry - I've been staying away from this for a while, so that it doesn't become 'my game'. --James 12:14, 1 May 2007 (BST)
No problem. I'll try to summarise what we've got, then. Any votes for a title? I think my money's still on Chronowar or Chronogeddon. --Kevan 13:09, 1 May 2007 (BST)

I've added a rough draft of rules and a few example cards that fit them. They're probably a bit biased towards how I was seeing the game progressing, so take me to task on anything I've misinterpreted. --Kevan 14:05, 1 May 2007 (BST)

After looking through everything for possible strategies, I've written up what I found here. As of right now, it looks like the later eras have far more offensive options than the earlier ones. Victorian and Renaissance eras have the fewest. -Bucky 01:46, 9 September 2008 (BST)

Game needs a name

Okay, we really should get a name sorted out for this. Fire out some suggestions and we'll take a vote. --Kevan 00:57, 9 May 2007 (BST)

Uchronia. Zaratustra 03:27, 9 May 2007 (BST)
Anachronic, Anachronix. Zaratustra 03:27, 9 May 2007 (BST)
Aetas (from latin translation of Era) Joeyeti 07:29, 9 May 2007 (BST)
Chronowar, Chronogeddon. Kevan 11:34, 9 May 2007 (BST)
Chronocide --BM 15:56, 9 May 2007 (BST)
Temporal Chaos! (Any similarity to names of recently released Magic: the Gathering sets is purely coincidental, I'm sure.) Jtwe 17:48, 9 May 2007 (BST)
Bellum Aetarum, an expanded version of Joeyeti's suggestion-Bucky 03:10, 10 May 2007 (BST)
which stands for? Zaratustra 08:18, 10 May 2007 (BST)
OSCAR - Open-Source Cards and Rules. --James 18:42, 19 May 2007 (BST)
Epochalypse Leeham

Maybe each person could pick their top three or top five amongst all names, their own included? Zaratustra 00:49, 26 June 2007 (BST)

Sounds good. Mine, in descending order: Chronogeddon, Anachronix, Chronowar, Uchronia, Chronocide. --Kevan 18:57, 23 July 2007 (BST)
Uchronia, Chronogeddon, Aetas, Chronowar, Anachronix. -- Zaratustra 17:13, 24 July 2007 (BST)
Using the Condorcet method I've deduced that nobody else gives a damn about the name of the thing. Should we pick Chronoggedon and be done with it or wait for more people to manifest? -- Zaratustra 02:47, 8 August 2007 (BST)
Another month later, and yes, we might as well, we can always change it back if other people suddenly wake up and vote strongly for something else. It's a better working title than "New CCG". --Kevan 11:09, 6 September 2007 (BST)

How about Timescape, Eternal Combat, Cataclysmic Glory, Chrono Warriors or just Timeline? I also like Chronowar, Anachronix and Uchronia but my only beef with Chronogeddon was it was hard to pronounce at first glance. Aetherknight 15:18, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Year numbers vs. abbreviations

Year numbers make setting decks more complicated than it needs to be... should they be abbreviated to a letter or number correspondent to their particular Era? Zaratustra 00:54, 17 July 2007 (BST)

I think the reasoning behind the different years on the cards was originally to act as another balancing trait to weight down stronger cards and making them harder to play. But like Zaratustra is basically saying the way the game is set up now the difference between -250 M and -70 M is non-existent. The way I see it I suggest we should do one of three things. 1)Change to abbreviations. 2)Make sub-eras that would make a disparity in years and separate cards, maybe having a rule that says closing one end of a portal be killing an earlier half (-250 M, -100 M] [-99 M, -65 M) or else that would make it different but not impossible 3)Make more cards that specify differences on card years. Being a MTG player and releasing the slight different of 1GG and 2G is very dramatic but often times can make games more fair and allow for more powerful yet unbroken cards I vote for 3. Maybe something like
1299
Paige
Unit - Soldier
Play this card only if you control a Soldier unit older than this.

Stamina: 1
Unit Action: Remove 3 damage from a Soldier. You may not play this ability your next turn

Action:A soldier in this era may take damage in place of this.
He's learned two things so far: Attend to his master, and hide behind him.
Card by Aetherknight
-100M
Hungry Super Raptors
Unit-Animal
When this comes into play destroy all Units older than this card

Damage 3
Stamina 3
If this card did not attack or was not attacked put a hunger counter on it. 2 hunger counters destroys it.

Action: Destroy an animal you control in the same time period as this, heal 1 and remove a hunger counter from this.
Card by Aetherknight
Test of time
Action
Target player picks an era. Destroy the oldest unit in it.
All great things must come to an end.
Card by Aetherknight
-[*]
Alien Artifact
Thing
This card's year is -Infinity but can be played in any era. When this card is destroyed draw 2 cards.
Unlock its mysterious splendor.
Card by Aetherknight

Sorry they're not all mini-cards; the corner value compressed the text too much. I'd love to hear what you guys think and maybe I'll add a few cards of my own.
Aetherknight 15:18, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Game Mechanics

v1.0

Two things I didn't cover when writing up the rules, but which have been discussed a bit - Resources and the Rock-Paper-Scissor trinity.

Resources would mean that certain units required access to particular resources to function, which would put them at a disadvantage if they were travelling to an unfamiliar Era where they couldn't refuel. One way to implement this would be to agree on a fixed set of resources, and write them on Era cards (with room for having Terrains or Units which could create that resource in alien time periods), and then say things like "If in an Era without a Nuclear resource, Mech Destroyer takes 3 wounds whenever it attacks."

Off the top of my head, resources could be: Coal, Electricity, Nuclear. And if we're going with magical powers, some hazy "Magic" or "Psychic" resource, which tends to be only available in ancient history and/or the far future.

Which might be a way to create a rock-paper-scissor trinity at the same time:-

  • Present-Day units have the edge over Historical units because they have better weapons that don't always need particular fuel.
  • Far-Future units have an edge over Present-Day units because the present day has raidable Electricity and Nuclear power sources.
  • Historical units have an edge over Far-Future units, because Mechs don't run very well in the 4th century (and possibly because ancient shamans can use powerful magical attacks against neo-psychics).

I'm not sure that's entirely balanced or coherent, but it seems like it might be a useful direction. --Kevan 16:07, 1 May 2007 (BST)

Some more suggestions:
  • Pre-historic: Pros - Strongest resourceless creatures, terrain destruction. Cons - Can't close portals on their own, operate vehicles or get useful tools
  • Ancient Ages: Pros - Fast creature placement, units gain strength in numbers. Cons - Individually weak creatures.
  • Medieval Ages: Pros - Creature summoning and banishing, ???. Cons - Dependent on mana for fancy stuff
  • Renaissance: Pros - Vehicle/Terrain summoning, ???. Cons - ???
  • Victorian Age: Pros - Versatile, good with Animal manipulating?. Cons - Scattered, cards don't support each other well
  • Industrial Age: Pros - Strong vehicles, defensive terrain, blitz tactics. Cons - ???
  • Modern Age: Pros - Strong vehicles, good terrains. Cons - Very dependent on resources and terrains to do any real damage
  • Apocalyptic: Pros - Good at recovering stuff from discard pile or otherwise benefiting from unit deaths. Cons - Overall frail
  • Space Age: Pros - Strongest creatures and vehicles. Cons - Very dependent on Energy.
Zaratustra 06:37, 2 May 2007 (BST)
Sounds good, particularly if the Far-Future is more reliant on terrain cards, so more vulnerable to blundering dinosaurs (and maybe mediaeval siege weapons?).
And the Fuel and Battery system looks good; a nice way to allow "power cards" that don't become fully useful until you play other cards. Not sure if they'd benefit from entering play unfuelled by default, perhaps with the power-station Terrains saying that "X-powered Units enter play with full X." --Kevan 16:02, 2 May 2007 (BST)

If a face down era is turned face down, is it destroyed? JJ12121616 02:14, 8 June 2007 (BST)

No. - Zaratustra 05:35, 8 June 2007 (BST)

If two players both have the same era in play, how does gameplay function? Do both eras count as one? Are they seperate, such as my portal could be closed while yours is open? Are they together in occupancy or do they function as two seperate eras, both with a diffrent location in the timeline? If so, what order do they go in? JJ12121616 02:14, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Yes, yes, together. It's one era with two portals, I don't see the problems people have with it. - Zaratustra 05:35, 8 June 2007 (BST)
No problems, just wanted clarification for play testing. JJ12121616 20:39, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Can you use your action then your thing, or is the thing required to be played first? JJ12121616 04:08, 9 June 2007 (BST)

Either way as per standard dvorak rules. - Zaratustra 05:54, 9 June 2007 (BST)

Can you attack your own Units? Chenhsi 06:34, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Flight?

I'm thinking that "Flying" might be a useful keyword, so that there's a clear mechanic saying that a ground-based unit can't do much damage to a flying one, that a Tyrannosaurus isn't going to do very well against a B-12 Bomber. We could change "damage" stats into "Ranged damage" and "Close-combat damage" (or something), allow units to pick which type they use when they attack, and define "Flying" as meaning "Prevent all close-combat damage, unless it comes from another Flying Unit."

What do people think? --Kevan 18:40, 7 May 2007 (BST)

This could also be tied in to the idea of the Future Eras requiring Terrain support, if Flying Units required an Airstrip or Launchpad to be in play, before they could be played themselves (which would also allow Flying Units to be powerful against ground troops, without being unbalanced). --Kevan 15:25, 8 May 2007 (BST)
Hm. To avoid numberitis, I'd suggest just adding (melée), (range) or (melée/range) to the Damage tag of cards. Flying could mean 'can only attack at range and be attacked by range attacks'. This would allow for units that are only damaged by close-range, too. - Zaratustra 20:25, 20 May 2007 (BST)
That works. --Kevan 16:22, 21 May 2007 (BST)

Alternative flight mechanic: "Flying" means "Can only be attacked by other Flying Units", and all Flying Vehicles would say things like "At the start of your turn, if there isn't an Airstrip in the same Era as this Unit, it loses 1 Fuel." (with whatever other wordings; a Launchpad for futuristic fliers, nothing for flying Animals, and tweaked variations). --Kevan 17:15, 10 May 2007 (BST)

If there's no recharge station (like airstrips) for flying Animals, how is it possible to recharge Dragon's mana? Is Dragon flying specifically so that it can't be recharged? --Corrigan 9:46, December 18 (PST)
Fuel already goes down quite fast (one per Unit Action). Maybe something like 'cannot refuel without an Airstrip terrain'? - Zaratustra 20:25, 20 May 2007 (BST)
Aha, perfect. And futuristic airstrips would just recharge batteries, so would be useless for present-day aeroplanes. --Kevan 16:22, 21 May 2007 (BST)

So can Flying units attack each other? Chenhsi 22:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Ongoing effects

This came up in the Infinite Dvorak deck as well, and I don't know if it's just my preference, but I think we should be avoiding cards which create invisible permanent effects. Mechanics like "Target Animal in the same era is now a Soldier" and "If a Marine is attacked for the first time" require the players to remember a change in the gamestate, and preventing the entire gamestate from being read by looking at the table.

In all cases, I think they can be reworded so as not to require invisible tracking (or at least flipped to make the tracking very short term - "If this Unit came into play during your most recent turn, it has -2 Damage and -2 Stamina, and counts as a Soldier instead of an Animal." for Werewolf). What do other people think? --Kevan 11:53, 10 May 2007 (BST)

The Island is quite a specialty card, though. It's not going to see much play, in my opinion. Zaratustra 20:55, 10 May 2007 (BST)
Perhaps, but if we're agreed that invisible effects are a potentially bad and confusing thing, there's no reason for them to exist at all, even on rare cards. And actually, the problem I raised for James's Collected Speeches applies to the Island as well - if an Animal "is now a Soldier" and gets shuffled back into my deck, what happens to it? (It would be cleaner to have the Island adding Mutation Tokens to units, and defining an effect for them - in fact, if I was playing a game with an Island deck, I'd probably use tokens to keep track of things anyway. Admittedly it's completely implicit that tokens "fall off" of a card when it leaves play, under the current rules, but that's much more intuitive than state effects terminating.) --Kevan 16:47, 22 June 2007 (BST)
Sound oppinion... On my behalf (If marine is attacked for the first time...) I would say that some sort of markers or coins could be used to track the Stamina count of a Unit. --Joeyeti 14:14, 10 May 2007 (BST)
I think we've already established that we're using "wound counters" to keep track of damage, although it's a bit patchily worded, throughout the cards. If we've already got one type of token being use a lot on each card, we should probably avoid using too many more. (Marine could be changed to "If Marine is attacked while unwounded..." without losing too much of the mechanic, and Reaper-Jack could become "Damage: 1, Stamina: 3. Reaper-Jack enters play with two wounds. If Reaper-Jack kills another Unit, he may heal one wound.") --Kevan 14:49, 10 May 2007 (BST)
I don't see what the big deal about Island is. Wouldn't the effect cease to be ongoing once the card is destroyed? This would mean that no counters would be needed and one could understand the status of the game at first glance. If it is meant to be permanent after the Island is gone then that seems a little odd and should be errataed. As for Marine I would suggest something more simpler like "Until the start of your next turn attacks cannot damage Marine" to keep memorization to a minimum if the use of a counter is discouraged. Aetherknight 08:18, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


Speeding things up

To make the game faster-paced, and to give it more of a momentum effect, I think it would be a good idea to have these two Special Rules:

  • Players may play one Thing through each open Portal.
  • Players may take one Action in each Era they have Units in at the start of their turn, plus one Timeless Action per turn.

--Bucky 19:53, 28 September 2007 (BST)

I like the idea in theory, but you're still only drawing one card per turn. Plus, the couple of times I played, armies tended to build up quickly. -- Zaratustra 07:58, 29 September 2007 (BST)

In that case, we could keep the one-Thing-per-turn limit but allow the extra Actions. -Bucky 02:19, 30 September 2007 (BST)

External and Aquatic

What is meant by these two keywords? The rulse do not seem to mention either one.--ChippyYYZ 23:53, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

They have no meaning in the rules, but have their obvious meanings anyway. 'Aquatic' is referenced by a few cards and basically means 'able to be attacked by Kraken'. 'External' is not referenced by any cards.-Bucky 20:55, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
I think that it might make more sense if Aquatic units could only be attacked by Units that are Aquatic, Aerial or have range damage. It's kind of illogical that a zombie could attack a ship in the ocean. -- Corrigan 9:52, December 18, 2010 (PST)

Timeline

Hm. Should there be a post-apocalyptic period? Should it be before or after space exploration? Or beside it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zaratustra (talkcontribs) 22:26, 1 May 2007.

We could just add a load of post-apocalypse cards to the tail end of the Information Age (perhaps jotting out a detailed timeline somewhere, to clarify that an apocalypse occurs in 2086); I'm not sure we'd necessarily gain very much by adding more and more and thinner and thinner Eras to the timeline.
Having said that, a post-apocalypse probably should be distinct from the Era that immediately precedes it, so that 21st century mobile phones and pet foods and chat shows can't be played straight into it. Feel free to give it a go and see how it pans out. --Kevan 00:07, 2 May 2007 (BST)

Last Days of Earth is pretty empty and even I can't think of stuff to put in. Shall it be returned to ashes? Zaratustra 07:45, 18 May 2007 (BST)

When looking at one Era, it's hard to know which cards fall under them if the cards are listed at an earlier Era. For example, the Refinery has the date 1888+, so it is listed under the Victorian Era. That means when I'm looking at the Apocalyptic Era I don't see it, which gets hard to keep track of. I think that each Era should have a section which lists the names of these unshown multi-Era cards even if the card itself is only actually displayed in one place (for ease of editing). This will make balancing and deck design much easier. If no one has any objections I will add this in the next few days. Azareon 22:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

It seems like a good idea to have such a list around somewhere.-Bucky 23:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

It's kind of odd that there are no Eras between the Mesozoic Era and Antiquity. Might I suggest an intermediate one, say "Stone Age", "Paleolithic Era" or "Dawn of Man", themed around early tribal culture? -- Corrigan 15:42, December 18, 2010.

Starter / booster packs

Would it be interesting to make a 'starter' pack with, say, 20 cards per Era and 30 timeless cards, then put the rest on semi-themed 'boosters'? -- Zaratustra 08:41, 12 September 2007 (BST)

Speaking from (minor) experience, it's hard to keep track of this sort of thing, but it does make for a more interesting game. However, if you go that route, then you can excuse making broken cards by making them really rare, but then the one guy who has the card kills everyone and can protest when his card is changed. --Atticus 23:52, 19 May 2008 (BST)
To make things fair when there are two players in the same era, the player who goes first should not be able to take an Action on the first turn. Otherwise, whoever goes second loses that portal.-Bucky 00:24, 12 August 2008 (BST)

Art

Yeah, I know I'm mostly the only person that cares about this one, but even so: -- Zaratustra 02:15, 24 September 2007 (BST)

http://zarawesome.googlepages.com/chronocards2.png

Card feedback

Cards by James

I did a fair few cards, none of which seem to be on the front page?

--James 18:45, 19 May 2007 (BST)

They don't show up on the edit log either.Bucky
Maybe they got lost in a edit collision and you didn't notice? Zaratustra 20:52, 19 May 2007 (BST)
If you mean the ones you suggested in the talk thread back in February, they weren't all converted and copied across when the main CCG page was created; I didn't want to be too presumptuous about rewording cards (like Time Machine) to the finalised system, so only took a couple of examples. Feel free to tweak and copy them across. --Kevan 10:44, 20 May 2007 (BST)
I took the liberty of copying the more obvious cards. I like the ideas of Spell Actions that can be played on any Era a Wizard is in, but your examples are both strictly worse than Time Warp. Leonardo's Contraption awaits the inclusion of a Renaissance era. - Zaratustra 00:24, 21 May 2007 (BST)

Reaper-Jack - Are the counters removed instead of wounds being added? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JJ12121616 (talkcontribs).

Collected Speeches of Lucifer falls under the "ongoing effects" problem raised elsewhere on this talk page; in this case the card can actually lead to ambiguous events (if I make a Tyrannosaur Infernal and it gets shuffled back into my deck, does it stay Infernal? And if so, how do I distinguish it from other Tyrannosaurs in my deck?). "All other Units you control in this Era are counted as Infernal." might be okay, depending on what Infernality ends up doing. --Kevan 16:41, 22 June 2007 (BST)

Jurassic Labs: Should this be changed to only allow Animals to be played? Right now I could use it to play a Ninja, Flying Machine or Bulldozer, which doesn't make much sense. Great style though, and I imagine nice combos with the Island. Ice Trap: Are the units assigned to this unable to take actions? I think this should be the case because they are frozen. Azareon 21:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Jurassic Labs- I'm not sure because nobody has tried building a deck using the Labs. Jurrassic Labs are certainly the most powerful play-out-of-era cards, so some toning down may be needed. I'd suggest trying out the current version and seeing if it's broken.
Ice Trap- As written, no; you're free to use it to take a couple of dinosaurs on a strafing run through a couple of enemy eras.
-Bucky 23:35, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
I wasn't referring to the game balance of these cards, but the in-game rationale for what they do. A Jurassic Park style Lab should not be able to create Ninjas or Panzer Tanks, because that doesn't make any sense (and yes, it might be hugely overpowered--I could make a deck in the last three Eras that uses any Units I want at all if I have a bunch of these Labs). I suggest restricting it to something like playing Units from before 499 or to Animals (although I realize this means it could allow Elementals and Zombies to be played, which doesn't make sense either). Also, it doesn't make sense for a frozen dinosaur to attack someone and still be frozen. If the dinosaur attacks, it should be "unassigned" from the Ice Trap. Or the name could be changed to something like Glacial Valley, which sounds like it could allow units to leave it and then re-enter. Obviously this doesn't have to change, but I think the style of this game is very cool, and having cards' game mechanics reflect the imaginary things they represent heightens the style tremendously. Azareon 04:24, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Loot: How does a Modifier work? Can you play it in addition to an Action? I only see this one card as a Modifier, although my suggestion for how The Butterfly Effect should work would be one as well. Maybe this should be explained under the rules. Azareon 22:44, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

You can play it whenever it says you can play it and and may not play it at any other time. I don't know what "Modifier" means, but the card text speaks for itself.-Bucky 23:35, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

The Steam Airship Gunner is listed as 1890+. I understand why a Time Machine could be found natively after the end of this Era, but is there a rationale for why a steampunk airship would be found in the Apocalypse or Space Ages, etc.? Azareon 08:43, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Cards by Zaratustra

Red Giant Sun would make more sense as a Terrain with a Unit Action ability, wouldn't it? (And maybe an area-effect one, at that.) --Kevan 22:52, 1 May 2007 (BST)

Hm, true. Zaratustra 23:09, 1 May 2007 (BST)

Should the Eras overlap at their endpoints? I haven't looked too carefully, but it seems like a card from 1969 could be played onto either the Industrial Age or the Atomic age. MagiMaster 04:18, 2 May 2007 (BST)

We can jigger the era ends better once we have enough cards for each one, I guess. Zaratustra 20:56, 2 May 2007 (BST)

So how can Star Fighters and Stellar Explorers fight fairly against mediaeval peasants and dinosaurs, or even present-day units? I'm beginning to think that "flying" might be a useful keyword to have (so that some units just can't do any damage at all to flying units), but things actually whooshing around in space is maybe pushing that a bit too far, particularly when we have cards like Blitzkreig being able to damage spaceships. Maybe we should keep everything within the lower atmosphere, and explain thematically that all time portals open on the ground? --Kevan 18:33, 7 May 2007 (BST)

Hm, OK. Zaratustra 20:02, 7 May 2007 (BST)

Moonshot Cannon: This card is way too powerful. Is it supposed to be able to fire at Units in other Eras?-Bucky 00:06, 11 May 2007 (BST)

I don't know what the intention was (it does need Fuel), but I think we definitely need to sort out a big, clear assumption somewhere that cards can only affect other cards in the same era, and that Action cards have to be played into a single, specific era. --Kevan 00:49, 11 May 2007 (BST)
My mistake. There. Zaratustra 02:20, 11 May 2007 (BST)

Timeline Shift has been massively depowered, as it makes a very bad combo with Chronofold Hounds that can bone the game from the first turn. Zaratustra 03:34, 13 May 2007 (BST)

Cybertank - Maybe "This does not need a Soldier to take Unit Actions." should be called "Automated" or something. JJ12121616 02:14, 8 June 2007 (BST)

If more Vehicles show up with such an ability I'll keyword it. - Zaratustra 05:41, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Extinction Event - Does it have to say "in this Era"? JJ12121616 02:14, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Not anymore. - Zaratustra 05:41, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Wooden Horse - "Unit Action: Put a Soldier card from this Unit's original Era into play." from where? JJ12121616 02:14, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Your hand. Rephrased. - Zaratustra 05:41, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Unequal Trading - Do you get to pick the cards? Are they from the top or anywhere? If you draw a unit this way, how will you play it? If you discard a card that isn't yours, where does it go? When I put the card on my hand, is it on my left or my right? (okay, that one was for fun. But "in" might be better. OCD.) JJ12121616 02:14, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Yeah. Sure, why not. Alternate Universe. Rules don't specify, probably yours. You're very funny. - Zaratustra 05:41, 8 June 2007 (BST)
I apologizes if I offended you; Sarcasm is hard over the internet without audio. JJ12121616 20:39, 8 June 2007 (BST)
It's OK, you wouldn't know English is my second language. -- Zaratustra 03:00, 9 June 2007 (BST)

Ninja-Does this allow a free attack after another free attack? If not, you should rephrase it.-Bucky 01:45, 24 June 2007 (BST)

Sandglass Desert:This card seems overpowered to me. It combos too well with any Action that makes you draw cards (such as Timeless Luck or Eureka). It also combos extremely well with Painkillers. -Bucky 07:48, 15 October 2007 (BST)

Any better? -- Zaratustra 21:37, 15 October 2007 (BST)

Temple - What is the point of Temple if there are only 2 Holy units in the game?

To give aid to those two units? Maybe more holy units will be made later. -- Zaratustra 01:05, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

War Elephant - Can it kill itself or another War Elephant? Chenhsi 22:16, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

It certainly can. -- Zaratustra 01:05, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Difference Engine - IMO, this card's ability belongs in the Renaissance era.-Bucky 07:27, 25 April 2008 (BST)

Perhaps, though Victorian Era doesn't have much of a conducting mechanic. I'll move it if I think of a good flavor for it in the other era. -- Zaratustra 03:09, 29 April 2008 (BST)

Temptation, Defile - Needs nerfing badly. In the zombie deck, these cards represent a 'pwn anything' defense that other decks just plain can't get around. Any other Apocalypse-era deck doesn't stand a chance. I'd suggest completely reworking or removing Temptation and restricting Defile to non-Unit Holy Things. -Bucky 00:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't quite get how Crusader's Unit Action is useful, since, as a Unit Action, it replaces combat, so damage or offensive bonuses are useless, and it doesn't last long enough for any stamina or defensive bonuses to work either. It would be better if it just said "Soldier Units you control are Holy", as a constant effect. -- Corrigan 16:07, December 18, 2010 (PST)

Cards by BM

Your 'Genetical Altering' card is misspelled and apparently you do not want it to be corrected. Zaratustra 08:28, 5 May 2007 (BST)

I fixed it, but now I don't think it sounds right. --BM 15:26, 5 May 2007 (BST)
Card names in CCGs tend to be nouns or present-simple-tense verbs, rather than continuous-tense verbs - "Genetic Alteration" or "Alter Genes", rather than "Genetically Altering". And the possessive "its" doesn't have an apostrophe. --Kevan 15:42, 5 May 2007 (BST)
Why did "Genetic Alteration" get put in the timeless cards pile? It says 2000+ and all the other n+ cards got put in their starting era. --BM 14:42, 8 May 2007 (BST)
Sorry, it just got lost in all the yearless cards when I was rearranging the page. I've moved it. --Kevan 15:09, 8 May 2007 (BST)
For what it's worth, this card also falls under the "invisible state effect" problem, and would work more or less equally well as an Equipment card of some sort, that said "This Animal or Soldier gets +2 Damage." --Kevan 16:52, 22 June 2007 (BST)

Tank - Does this mean that a soldier must be "assigned" to a specific vehicle? Or when Tank is destroyed, pick a soldier in the same era as this one and deal 2 wounds to it? JJ12121616 02:14, 8 June 2007 (BST)

The Butterfly Effect - Can (or should) the first target be yours? JJ12121616 02:14, 8 June 2007 (BST)

If that is what this card intends, it should be reworded as something like "Destroy one of your Units. Then choose an opponent's Unit in a later Era to destroy." Actually, I think it would be much more interesting and fun if you had to kill an enemy Unit in combat first, i.e. "You may only play The Butterfly Effect immediately after you destroy a player's Unit in combat. Choose one of that player's Units in a futureward Era to destroy." Azareon 21:18, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Cards by JoeYeti

Is there a specific reason why Timeless Luck and The Great Unknown are picking random cards from the deck, rather than just drawing from the top? --Kevan 12:23, 7 May 2007 (BST)

Nope, just to make it somewhat interesting... ;) But if the majority disagrees and you feel it is tedious to dive through the whole deck... It can be changed. --Joeyeti 16:02, 7 May 2007 (BST)
Not tedious, but if this were being played in something like Links#Apprentice, there'd be no command for "remove a random card from the deck".
But CCG cards generally interact more effectively if they're kept as simple as possible - if there were other cards that let you put cards on top of your deck, or shuffle it, then Timeless Luck might be an interesting card to play in conjunction with them. As it is, avoiding the top cards and picking random ones just seems to make it less interesting. (And The Great Unknown is actually a slightly weaker version of the legendarily weak "Draw one card" action card, which just replaces the card you're playing with a card you could have drawn instead, and uses up your action for that turn.) --Kevan 18:13, 7 May 2007 (BST)
Ok, changing the Timeless Luck and erasing The Great Unknown.... --Joeyeti 08:00, 8 May 2007 (BST)

Your mechanic of "If heads, (this card) is hit" would be clearer as "If tails, the damage is prevented", assuming that's what you meant. --Kevan 18:13, 7 May 2007 (BST)

As you mention it, is clearer ;) Changed... --Joeyeti 08:00, 8 May 2007 (BST)

Deep Forest - How does a unit get "in"? JJ12121616 02:14, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Never mind, further reading proved myself an idiot. JJ12121616 18:26, 9 June 2007 (BST)

Cards by Bucky

"Unique" would certainly be a useful keyword, but you've got it as both "You can only have one of these in each Era." and "You can only have one of these in play at a time." - I think the former's probably more fun, for a time-travel game. --Kevan 17:44, 9 May 2007 (BST)

Given the nature of these cards (i.e. affects all later eras), having two in different eras would make them far too powerful. Two Biotech Labs could use the same prerequisite labs yet give your troops in the later era 9x the Stamina, which is too much. -Bucky 20:11, 9 May 2007 (BST)

Make it two keywords, then. I didn't even notice they had different rulings. Zaratustra 21:08, 9 May 2007 (BST)
You could rephrase the cards so that the modifier only applies once, although it'd take a lot of rephrasing. Perhaps some sort of "required" keyword would be useful (meaning "must have these other things in play in current or earlier eras, before you can play this"), so that you could just say something like "Biotechnology Lab. Unique. Requires Secret Research Lab, Chemistry Lab and Nanotechnology Lab. A Soldier that has any Biotechnology Labs in its current or earlier Eras has its stamina tripled." --Kevan 00:59, 10 May 2007 (BST)

Are the more advanced Lab cards too powerful? Or are the earlier ones not powerful enough? Or are they all too strong?-Bucky 21:35, 9 May 2007 (BST)

Time to make a deck and test! Zaratustra 22:42, 9 May 2007 (BST)
One problem I can see is that labs effecting later Eras have little use in the farther end of the timeline. Zaratustra 23:03, 9 May 2007 (BST)
That's one of the balancing factors. In order to take full advantage of them, you need to move them back through time. Not only is this ether dangerous and time consuming(i.e. shipping buildings through enemy territory) or reliant on luck (i.e. using Time Warp), but early in the timeline it is more vulnerable to a blundering Dinosaur. -Bucky 03:09, 10 May 2007 (BST)

Won't Time Fly die as soon as it's played? -- Zaratustra 07:44, 24 May 2007 (BST)

To quote the rules, "If a card ever sustains a number of wound counters that exceed its Stamina, it is destroyed." (emphasis added) The Time Fly will not die until it receives a wound.-Bucky 16:20, 24 May 2007 (BST)
Oh, tut, I think that was just me wording things carelessly - I don't think it makes any intuitive sense for a Stamina 3 unit to require four wounds before it dies. Any objections to the rule being reworded to the originally-intended "equal or exceed"? --Kevan 16:32, 24 May 2007 (BST)
Everyone will understand it that way anyway, so might as well. -- Zaratustra 19:03, 24 May 2007 (BST)
Now this throws the game balance off, since it greatly increases the one-hit kill opportunities. That one extra wound made a rather large difference, especially for weaker units, but everyone just lost at least a quarter of their stamina.-Bucky 20:56, 24 May 2007 (BST)
Anyone who was designing their cards under the same system as you can just bump the numbers up by one. Personally, all my cards were designed for the "equal or exceed" wording. --Kevan 22:24, 24 May 2007 (BST)

Does "Stamina: 1/4" (presumably "¼"?) add anything that couldn't be achieved through "Stamina: 1. Time Fly's stamina may not be increased."? Given that there's no reason why future cards couldn't include mechanics like "heal wound counters equal to the stamina of target unit", a single fractional value is liable to pollute and confuse the rest of the game. --Kevan 09:23, 25 May 2007 (BST)

Zombie - Zombie with mana? Just a personal issue I guess. JJ12121616 02:14, 8 June 2007 (BST)

I had an idea to make labs more modular. See what you think -- Zaratustra 02:23, 6 October 2007 (BST)

Materials Science Lab
Terrain - Unique
Stamina: 7

If you control three Labs in this Era or earlier, all your Terrains in this Era or later have Armor 2.
Chemistry Lab
Terrain - Unique Lab
Stamina: 7

If you control three Labs in this Era or earlier, all your Vehicles in this Era or later gain have twice the Fuel and Battery.
Nanotechnology Lab
Terrain - Unique Lab
Stamina: 6

If you control three Labs in this Era or earlier, all your Vehicles in this Era or later have Regeneration 1.
Engineering Lab
Terrain - Unique Lab
Stamina: 7

Vehicles in this Era or later gain +1 Stamina for each Lab you control in this Era or earlier.
Energy Physics Lab
Terrain - Unique Lab
Stamina: 6

Vehicles in this Era or later gain +1 Damage for each Lab you control in this Era or earlier.
Biotechnology Lab
Terrain - Unique Lab
Stamina: 6

Soldiers in this Era or later gain +1 Stamina for each Lab you control in this Era or earlier.


I'd prefer something that keeps the heirarchy of labs - maybe using something like this -Bucky 02:35, 6 October 2007 (BST)

Biotechnology Lab
Terrain - Unique Lab
Stamina: 6
This is a level 3 Lab.

If you control a level 2 Lab in this Era or earlier, Soldiers in this Era or later have their Stamina doubled.


Why do past labs affect modern labs?

Cards by Cait

You shouldn't be allowed to play Timeline Shatter into an opponent's Era, which the current wording and rules seem to allow.-Bucky 03:54, 13 May 2007 (BST)

Cards by Kevan

Count Schreck - Do the normal placement rules apply, do you put it in the same era as the count, or can you put it anywhere? JJ12121616 02:14, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Maybe we need to tighten up the base rules, but the rule about Things only being able to "see" the Era they're in should also cover the fact that a "put into play" effect of a Thing would be restricted to that era. I'll think about a good wording for it. --Kevan 10:09, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Scavenger Team - Does the target being moved to have to be able to use such a counter? If NAME gets a mana counter, does NAME now need to remove mana counters to activate, and can it then not move without mana? JJ12121616 02:14, 8 June 2007 (BST)

The "Resources" rule says that fuel is only drained if a Unit has a fuel value "defined". This is a bit ambiguous, but even if you read having a token as having a value defined, it'll become undefined as soon as the token is spent. --Kevan 10:09, 8 June 2007 (BST)
So will the token stay until moved or spent upon the next usage of that unit? In my opinion, it should just stay. JJ12121616 20:39, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Solar Panel: This card is massively more powerful than any of the other Battery replenishing buildings to the point where it could make the rest a waste of deck space. It may have low Stamina, but the fact that it can fully replenish one Unit's Battery as a free action every turn makes it way too powerful in my opinion. One idea is to make the Solar Panel read: "At the start of your turn, you may discard X cards. If you do so, replenish X Battery to one Unit." This would reflect the high cost of Solar Paneling in real life, keep the cards balanced, and add interesting variety to the Battery replenishing mechanics. Azareon 09:39, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Cards by jtwe

Gray Goo: If the Gray Goo card itself is removed, what happens? Do the goo tokens still in play continue to reproduce? Or just vanish? Or remain there, inert, until the card gets played again? Or some other possibility I'm not thinking of? --Tweed Cap 15:23, 25 April 2008 (BST)

Remain there inert, because it doesn't say otherwise. I have to imagine that actually PLAYING with this card would be supremely irritating. I have no idea why I keep thinking up cards like that. Jtwe 15:55, 25 April 2008 (BST)

Cards by Corrigan

I received a message from Bucky saying that most of the batch of cards I recently added were of "poor quality", by which, I assume, he meant they were overpowered. I've since toned down most of them (though it pained me to add mana to Giant) and deleted some altogether. I hope they are now more acceptable, but not too severely nerfed. Also, how much freedom can be given for Unique cards? I didn't change Michael, and I worry that he's overpowered even as a Unique card. -- Corrigan 15:22, December 18 (PST)

You added a bunch of off-theme cards (like the mythological Antiquity Animals), ignored a few conventions (Aerial units not named 'Dragon' are fragile, as are Renaissance soldiers), and, yes, had some overpowered (e.g. Historic Charge - compare to the 'ordinary' Charge!), mechanically broken (Legend - making a card Unique while it's in play and you have another one has an undefined result) and useless (specific example no longer present) cards. Overall, it felt like you hadn't actually played the game before making the cards.


As for Unique cards, they typically get a small (+1.5 stat) bonus for being unique. In the specific case of Michael, that does *not* excuse an External Soldier being so much better than the Era-specific Unique soldier (Hero) in terms of base states. Additionally, Aerial units (and Soldiers!) just don't have Dino-sized toughness without help, even with a minor (in this case completely avoidable) drawback.-Bucky 01:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
Addendum: Jetpack Infantry is just a tad below 'fair' for an Aerial Soldier with no fuel. Michael needs to be reconcepted or gets nerfed to 1/1. I think the best solution is 0/2 with an awesome ability.-Bucky 01:42, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't think that the mythological creatures would be off-theme (I saw that there were fantasy creatures in the Middle Ages and the Victorian Era, so I didn't think there would be these kinds of restrictions). I've deleted all of the mythological creatures, and I've added a Senate card which is more in keeping with the Antiquity theme.

I also appreciate you toning down some of my cards, but now that Michael is powered down, he's hardly extraordinary. An Archer can take him down in one shot; I'm considering giving him Armor 1 and replacing his Profane Bane ability to something a bit less situational, but not overwhelming. -- Corrigan 23:36, December 18, 2010 (PST)

With armor 1, Michael is indeed overwhelming. Even without armor 1, Michael still breaks too many design rules (e.g. no Mesozoic soldiers, no Aerial vehicle drivers, Aerials have lower stats, Everywhen cards are slightly worse than era-specific ones)-Bucky 20:03, 23 December 2010 (UTC)


Reenact - This gives Renaissance decks better access to Antiquity's best soldiers than Antiquity decks, thanks to the search ability. It would probably also require nerfs to several Antiquity-era Soldiers like Hero and General, but I can't tell for sure without playing a few games. Please tone it down. (suggestion: play the soldier from hand and/or set its stamina to 1.)-Bucky 02:03, 27 December 2010 (UTC)


Spike Trap - I feel like this should give one of your soldiers the animal's Game effect and maybe be soldier-powered. Your call.--ChippyYYZ 22:33, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Flux Strain is game-breaking in the first two turns and has no 'fair' uses. I've moved it to the talk page in case you want to rework it. -Bucky 05:20, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Flux Strain
Terrain - Timeless
Stamina: 3
Whenever there are no Units in an Era, turn that Era Portal face-down.
Maintaining these portals is an energy-consuming task. There's no reason to keep portals open if they lead to wastelands.
Card by Corrigan


Stone Age

I see you've created a new era. While this isn't necessarily bad, it does mean you need to come up with at least one reasonable offense card that's distinct from the other eras' offense.-Bucky 02:03, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Now that you've built it out a bit more... it still doesn't seem to have any real offensive capabilities.-Bucky 23:19, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Card limit

we need a limit on card copies in the deck. I was destroyed by a deck with 20 Timeline Shifts and 20 Chronofold Hounds. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zaratustra (talkcontribs) 02:27, 13 May 2007.

I suppose this is fixed now that the cards have been changed. I'm not sure if the fact that a deck with massively-multiple cards is a sign of a broken deck-construction rule, or a broken card design - it does seem to come up for every CCG we try to make, though, so maybe it should just be a fixed default rule for all CCG sets, even if it does mean we're copying Magic the Gathering. (Do many other CCGs have copies-per-deck limit?) --Kevan 12:47, 14 May 2007 (BST)
From a cursory glance, Yugioh and Naruto have a 3-card limit. Mostly, it's a way to prevent a single overpowered card creating an entire degenerate deck. I suppose we could try a few games without a card limit? Zaratustra 20:20, 14 May 2007 (BST)
Massively-multiple card decks tend to be brittle, especially if there are global rules cards. Or, they are the result of carefully balanced card combos that are easily upset, just like other powerful decks. If you look closely at my obsolete Alchemy deck, it worked not only because of the critical mass of Tea and Gargle Blaster but also on account of several other combos folded neatly into the victory conditions. If certain cards are too powerful in large numbers, we can restrict them on a case-by-case basis (like the Lab cards) or reword them to avoid the complication (e.g. "You may only play one Action Splitter per turn"). On the other hand, if we restrict all decks this way, we cut out other valid, nonbroken strategies (like a zombie horde deck). I think we should recommend it for new CCGs until the kinks get worked out, but not mandate it.
However, there is another type of deck which we should ban, one with exactly six Actions and fewer than 10 or so Things. This type of deck is inherently broken because once all your things are played you know exactly what you're drawing next turn.-Bucky 06:43, 16 May 2007 (BST)
You'll notice there's already a minimum of 40 cards in the deck. Zaratustra 08:07, 16 May 2007 (BST)

Maybe certain cards (ones like Zombie or Cavalry, whose texts make specific reference to having multiples in your deck) could be exempt from number-of-copies rules, or more copies could be allowed than normal to keep horde decks viable. Furthermore, certain cards could be restricted so that fewer copies than normal would be allowed. It sounds complicated, but it would allow more creativity through access to powerful cards without being completely busted. -- Corrigan

Playtesting

I played a round against a friend today. He played the Spartan Labs one (mostly using Antique cards as he wasn't very sure how the game worked) and I played a Werewolves with Guns Victorian/World War game.

Some thoughts:

  • Vehicles don't warp with their drivers. Generals don't follow their armies, though that's probably for the best else things get mighty fast.
  • Reinforced Bunker is tough.
  • The best strategy against a massive army seems to wait for the enemy to Maelstrom into your Era and then warp off to kill their portal.

Zaratustra 04:03, 17 May 2007 (BST)

Card combos

How many effective combos are there in this set? A few of them are devastating weapons but require quite unlikely setups, but I only know of a few small combos work well.

  • Double/Triple Swarm Attack: Painkillers + General + General(s) + troops: One General with boosted Stamina makes one or more lesser generals to act, letting an army move and attack on the same turn.
  • Research Lab series + Wrinkle: The Labs are there specifically for combos, but the Wrinkle allows the Labs to affect the entire timeline.
  • Hardened Bunker + Secret Research Lab + Materials Science Lab: There isn't much you can do to a Terrain with Armor 4, and the Labs also have Armor 2. This combo is best used to cover an invasion: send a Trenched Bunker in first, then move your troops in one by one under the protection of the Bunker. When you're ready to attack, warp out the bunker.

-Bucky 18:58, 17 September 2007 (BST)

Well, that last combo there is entirely your own creation. As for the other ones, I suggest trying to make a deck and see how it works in game. -- Zaratustra 22:05, 17 September 2007 (BST)

Cards by HellFalen

I've moved your cards to the talk page because they don't work in the current card set. Three of them have massive power-level concerns, amounting to an instant win if you play one, and the other of them doesn't work:

Portal Failure
Action
When you draw this card, destroy an era portal of your oponents.
Card by HellFalen
Buterfly effect
Action
When you draw this card, destroy all the things ao an oponents and give to him 3 things from the deck
Card by HellFalen
Calculation Error
Action
Change an era potal of your oponent and destroy alls his things
Card by HellFalen
Born in 1972 and die in 1235
Action
You can draw a card from the futurefrom the deck
Card by HellFalen


Portal failure and Calculation Error permanently remove your opponent's access to at least 1/3 of their cards. Butterfly Effect implies that you get to chose the 3 things (and the deck they come from); you can use it to render them completely helpless in an era. It takes a bit more work to kill them off than the first two, but it still wins the game assuming your opponent doesn't also play one of your 3 gamebreakers. Born in 1972 may be usable, but it isn't clear what's going on due to poor wording.-Bucky 01:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I think that we could re-word Born in 1972 to say "Search your deck for a card and play it onto an Era before its home Era." If I had to guess, I would say that that's its intended effect. -- Corrigan 15:53, December 18, 2010 (PST)

Cards by Ariev

The Fighter Plane (Industrial) does exactly the same thing as the Fighter Bomber and Fighter Jet appearing in later Eras, but it is more powerful. In my opinion, this should be balanced by weakening it. Planes at this time were pretty frail and had limited fuel in reality, so the Fighter Jet should be an improvement. Azareon 09:06, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Symbols (Recommendation by Doc Immortal)

You may want to use symbols for things that are frequently referenced on cards to reduce wordiness. For example, if some cards have defense power, a symbol can be used with a number over the symbol that tells you how much defense that card produces.

I dummied up some symbols for cards that have the following: 1 defense (shows a shield), 1 politics (shows the planet i.e. world domination), 1 religious power (shows generic religious symbol), 1 damage (shows something being destroyed), 1 endurance (shows a flexed arm). Obviously, something with 2 defense will have a 2 instead of a 1 and so on. They icons are not pretty but once someone knows what a symbol means, they can quickly identify a card's abilities at a glance. These symbols should be used for basic abilities. Advance stuff should remain in text form.

ChronogeddonSymbols.gif

Doc Immortal 08:03, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Holy/Profane/Unholy

Just a suggestion -- to me, "profane" means "secular". I'd suggest replacing the word with "unholy", which seems to be more what you want.

-- Wayland 09:48, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Additional Rules - Physical Challenge

Hi. I just thought I'd mention that I've just developed the Additional Rules - Physical Challenge, which is a set of additional optional rules and definitions which I hope will be well suited to a wide range (but certainly not all) Dvorak games. It seems to me that Chronogeddon could, with minimal effort, be modified to align with these (since I took lots of ideas from Chronogeddon). Mostly it's a matter of rewording some of the existing material. If you're happy for this to happen, but don't want to put in the time, please let me know.

-- Wayland 04:46, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

So what's the goal?

How do you win this game? I don't seem to see…

And now I've prompted its addition to the page. Thanks! Lenoxus 03:32, 3 January 2011 (UTC)