Talk:Chronogeddon CCG card set

This deck is currently under construction. We're currently working out the basic game mechanics, before we start designing actual cards. Feel free to join in the conversation below.

Old talk on this subject has been archived.

Joker's thoughts are at Talk:New CCG/joker.

Project status?

So what's happening with this? Do people think we've got enough material to put some coherent first-draft rules up on the main article page, and make enough cards for an alpha-test set? --Kevan 16:52, 26 March 2007 (BST)

I think so. --Depressi

Me too. --James 19:34, 6 April 2007 (BST)

So... who does it? Zaratustra 01:10, 10 April 2007 (BST)

I'd be happy to, but I'd say James got first refusal, as he started the project. --Kevan 12:22, 10 April 2007 (BST)

Archiving Old Discussion

Not sure this was a good way of reducing the size of the page, at least not without asking people. Maybe a forum would be a better format for a discussion if it's going to attract a lot of contributions. --James 10:27, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, just seemed the quickest way, since nothing else was happening to it; it's easy enough to open the archive page in a new tab or window, for reference. Feel free to paste it all back. --Kevan 22:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it's good because there's a lot of stuff here, and for someone coming to it for the first time it could be confusing. However, it could be seen as an editorial decision. I think a forum could solve the problem, because you can look at the date a thread was last posted and so it's easy to see which discussions are active and which ones have been abandoned or taken up in other threads. --James 14:29, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Proposal Including Some Possible Cards (updated March 3 '07)

Here are some ideas for cards.

They are assuming a rule that there are different Eras or Epochs, and that each Thing is 'in' one of these Eras at a time (and presumably that Things can usually only interact with Things in the same Era).

This rule seems to me to be worth adopting, but otherwise it seems to me that the game could probably use the basic Dvorak rules, or close to them.

Fu

Jurassic Labs

Thing - Location UNIQUE

Action: Put a Character which normally can be played in the Pre-Historic or Pre-Human Eras into play, in the same Era as this Thing.

Banishment

Action - Spell

Requires a Wizard. Move any Character in this Wizard's Era to its starting Era.

Summoning

Action - Spell

Requires a Wizard. Move any Character from any Era, to this Wizard's Era.

Hi

Leonardo's Contraption

Thing - Equipment UNIQUE

Action: Each character simultaneously writes down and reveals a number from 0 to their hand size. The player with the highest number wins. You pick the winner in a tie. The winner moves this Equipment and its Character to the Era of their choice, and discards a number of cards equal to their bid.

Ph/Pr

Trapped In the Ice

Thing - condition

Put this card on any Thing you control in the Pre-Historic or Pre-Human Era. This Thing may not be attacked. At the start of your turn, move this Thing to the Era one later than its current Era (unless it's in the Future). Any Thing in the same Era may take an action to destroy this card.

Fu

Time Machine

Thing - Equipment

Action: This Character moves to any Era.

Grandfather Paradox

Reaction

Triggered when a Thing you control is destroyed in combat by a Thing from a later Era. Toss a coin.

• Heads: The destroying Thing is also destroyed.
• Tails: Neither Thing suffers any effects from the combat.

Butterfly Effect

Reaction

Triggered when a Thing from the Pre-Human Era is destroyed in combat by a Thing from a later Era. You must discard two extra cards if you have them. Toss a coin.

• Heads: Every Thing from any Era later than Pre-Human takes 1 Damage.
• Tails: Neither Thing suffers any effects from the combat.

Forward Planning

Action

Choose another player. There must be at least one Era where you and that player both have a Thing. That player reveals their hand to all players. They then discard any cards that they have more than one copy of in hand. If there are no such cards, you must reveal your hand to all players and discard two cards.

Le

Guardian of Time

Thing - Character

Any game effect which moves any character from one Era to another, actually has the effect of making the Guardian lose 1 Stamina. The Guardian may not attack.

• Damage 1
• Stamina 1

Le

The Unbearable Being of Light

Thing - Character UNIQUE

Any game effect which moves any character from one Era to another, actually has the effect of making the Being lose 1 Stamina (this over-rules the similar power of Guardians of Time). The Being may not attack.

• Damage 2
• Stamina 2

Mo/Fu

History Department

Thing - Location

Action: Put a knowledge counter on any Character in the same Era as this Thing, who doesn't already have one. This Character has +1 Damage against Characters from Eras earlier than that of the History Department.

Loot

Reaction

Triggered when

• a Character you control destroys another Character in combat,
• Your Character isn't destroyed, and
• the other Character had any Equipment.

Your Character takes the Equipment.

--James 10:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Looks good. So what about combat - a simple "Action: Destroy a Thing in the same Era." system with variations, or something more complicated, with numbers? --Kevan 11:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe cards have two numbers; a 'hit points' and an 'attack', and there's a cardless action you can take to pick two units in the same Era, one of which you control, and each one loses hit points = to the other card's attack. Then any more complicated ideas such as armour, evasion etc can be done as card text. --James 18:44, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

That works. Using a Magic-style "healing back up to full at the end of the turn" system rather than keeping a permanent track with counters, I suppose?

I actually thought you'd put counters on the Things to represent 'Wounds' - maybe any Thing can take an action to remove 1 Wound from itself. --James 06:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I suppose the details of healing will shake out in playtesting (one Action to heal one wound seems very expensive, when you could use the Action to attack or play a card instead; I think we'd be okay with having healing as an optional card mechanic), but counters are fine. --Kevan 15:00, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah, but that's a card-less action that anyone can do, so it has to be not very good. Presumably there'd be cards/characters with the ability to heal more. --James 12:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps; I'm just wary of cluttering the ruleset with obscure minor rules, particularly something so weak that nobody would ever actually use it. But maybe a set of actions that a troop can always perform (attack/self-heal/time-travel-one-Era-forward-or-back?) would be elegant enough to remember. --Kevan 13:18, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Also we were talking before about players being able to take multiple actions in a single turn (because it makes more sense when playing via the web). --James 12:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

We were? How many multiple actions? And does this mean multiple attacks? --Kevan 13:00, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

How many Eras are we starting with, and how open should we be to unknown Eras being introduced later on? (Cards like Jurassic Labs would probably be better worded as "Play a character from an Era earlier than 4,000BC", rather than naming any specific Eras.)

How about the victory mechanism? Achieving dominance of a particular Era sounds like the way to go - perhaps have the Era cards played facing their owners, representing some sort of time portal into that Era (so that if two players are using the Roman Era in their decks, there are two Roman Era portals on the table, one owned by each player). If you're the only player with troops in an Era, you can target attacks against your opponent's Era card directly - either needing a single Strength X attack, or a free but two-turn "portal closing" thing; flip a face-up portal face-down (with some mechanic for the owner to reopen it), or remove a face-down portal from the table.

I think that's all we need before we can start brainstorming cards... --Kevan 19:11, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Can you make some cards illustrating what you've said above? --James 12:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

It's more mechanics than cards. The actual Era cards would just say "Roman Era (31BC-476AD)" (some might have special rules like "cards requiring electricity cannot be used here", but that doesn't matter yet). I'm imagining the core mechanics as being something like:-

• Each deck has any number of Era cards, which represent "time portals" - they all go into play at the start of the game, to represent the timeline. Era cards face the player who played them, and if both players happen to have the same Era in their deck, both cards go into play, one facing each player.
• To play a Thing, you put it into play next to the Era card it belongs to, provided that it's your Era card and it's still face-up on the table.
• If you're the only player with Troop cards in an Era, and it has an Era card belonging to your opponent, you can declare an attack against their time portal directly. This automatically succeeds - if it's face up you flip it face down; if it's face-down you remove it from play.
• If one of your Era cards is face down, you can't play new cards into that Era. You can move cards from other Eras into that Era, though (via whatever time travel mechanics exist). If you have troops in an Era with a face-down portal, you can take an action to repair the portal and flip it face-up again (and presumably there'll be other random cards to open and close portals).
• If all of your Era cards have been removed from play, you lose the game.

I'm not sure how well that'd play in practice - whether there'd be too much of a domino effect once you lost one Era, whether two identical-Era opponents would make for a much more boring game than two players with completely different Eras (or vice versa). It should be enough to get started, though, if others agree that it's a good direction. --Kevan 12:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't you get basically the same effect from saying i) you can't play cards from your hand into an Era if only one player has units there, and that player isn't you, and ii) if you end your turn with no units, you're eliminated (and if only one player isn't eliminated, that player wins)? --James 16:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Pretty much, but this slows it down by a couple of turns so that it's not a sudden ending. If my Space Marines wipe out your final Roman Phalanx card, I have to spend the next turn closing your time portal (if you don't play a card on your next turn to defend it), and the turn after that destroying your portal (if you don't play a random card on your second-next turn to somehow prevent it).

This might just be dragging things out needlessly, though, so it'd need playtesting to see how it worked in practice. --Kevan 17:44, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Another question: what is the 'cost' of cards? --James 16:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I hadn't had anything specific in mind; it'd probably work to keep the game at "play one Thing per turn", and have the more powerful cards requiring other cards to be in play before they can be used (weapons and vehicles that need other troops to operate them), or simply having arbitrary drawbacks (only working within certain Eras, or requiring cards to be discarded to play or use them, or whatever). If you've got any ideas for a better system, though, it'd be good to hear them. --Kevan 17:49, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

How about play one Thing per turn per open Portal you control, and one Action per turn per Era you have Things in.-Bucky 17:30, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm still not sure how Kevan's suggestions would work, could you do some example cards? --James 10:27, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Ph

Natural Portal

Thing - Portal

You may play one extra Thing per turn into the Pre-Human era. Action: Move a non-Building, non-Portal Thing from any Era to the Pre-Human era.

Pr

Ancient Portal

Thing - Portal

You may play one extra Thing or Action per turn into the Pre-Historic era.

Of what Kevan's talking about:

SF

Orbital Defense Station

Thing - Unit

You may not play this unless you control an Advanced Factory(Fu) and a Launching Pad

??

Demon Impersonator

Thing - Unit

At the beginning of each turn, you must feed a Unit in the same era as this card to the Demon Impersonator. If you fail to do so, it departs and destroys a random Portal you control in revenge.

I'm not really sure which aspects you're asking about. Maybe an example tabletop layout would help?

The top player is playing a Roman/WW2 deck, the bottom player is playing Roman/25th Century. Because both players have the Roman Era card, they can both play cards directly into the "Roman" section of the table. Neither can play cards into their opponent's other Era, but on the bottom player's next turn, he can use the Stasis Field to move his Gladiator to the WW2 section.

(Interesting that making up some example cards helps get a better idea of how the system should work. In retrospect, maybe Thing cards should have "year invented" on them, rather than naming specific Eras, allowing them to be played in any Era that includes or follows that year. Maybe a "year of obsolescence", as well, to stop siege engines being played into the 25th century.) --Kevan 23:36, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

So the Stasis Field card would move the Gladiator to WW2 although the bottom player doesnt have that Era's Card? --Joeyeti 07:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you're allowed to move into Eras controlled entirely by your opponent, otherwise there'd be no way to attack the troops they have stationed there, or to close the time portal. You just can't play cards directly into those eras; you have to play them in Eras you control, then move them. --Kevan 10:35, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that you should be able to play stuff into Eras, and not mess about with physical dates that make it too realistic. One more thing: The way I see it, things should tend to get more powerful as you go towards the future, BUT all the fun stuff (time paradoxes and so forth) would only work if you control an earlier Era than the target. Also, you should have buidings and stuff that can't move between Eras as well as units that can.--Depressi